a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Mar 31, 2008 15:29:20 GMT
Quite a few, I suspect C-Stock is the culpret.
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Post by happybunny on Mar 31, 2008 15:59:06 GMT
Huh.... this is confusing me :S
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Mar 31, 2008 16:08:22 GMT
Wimbleware trains are (constantly) breaking down!  |
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Post by District Dave on Mar 31, 2008 16:13:45 GMT
No they're not - as with all trains there are failures.
But this is probably one of the worst explained threads I've ever seen!
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Mar 31, 2008 16:17:20 GMT
Yes, don't we can a threat about reliability and stock?
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Post by c5 on Mar 31, 2008 16:17:42 GMT
A60, are you LUL management?
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Mar 31, 2008 17:07:41 GMT
Considering he isn't old enough to work for LUL, I somehow doubt it  Question to a60 = you seem to have many negatives to express.................in your opinion, is there anything you think we (LUL) actually do well at? |
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Mar 31, 2008 18:10:59 GMT
They are in the main good at providing a safe and reliable service.
A60.
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Mar 31, 2008 22:11:23 GMT
Nice save!! If I could add to your statement: I personally think the C stock is an excellent metro train! Designed in the late 60s to cope with rising passenger numbers, the stock was very forward thinking hosting 4 sets of double doors. Today they can still just about cope with dealing with large crowds (thanks to an excellent refurb). We must remember that the stock they displaced (the CO/CP stock) would have been terrible at moving people (especially when at only 5 cars).
In addition, traditionally the Circle service is very intensive. When the O/P stock replaced the the Met's wooden bodied saloon stock in 1950 it was hoped reliability would increase hugely-it didn't-the metadyne equipment packed up and eventually was replaced by PCM equipment.
The C stock should get more respect in my opinion!
Rant over!
(although-they're not a patch on the A stock!)
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 1, 2008 8:19:46 GMT
Isn't C stock more unreliable than other trains because they have more doors and they run on the Circle Line.
I like C stock, but I think that they should be replaced with S stock before the A stock is because they are more unreliable, and there isn't enough (you always hear of the Circle having 'minor delays due to lack of available trains')
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Post by trainopd78 on Apr 1, 2008 9:45:43 GMT
Here are the average figures for the end of 2007 over the last 6 months of 2007, approximately- you guys might be in for a couple of surprises Approximate MBF figures: 95ts - 5000 C69/77 - 7500 72ts - 9000 67ts - 10000 92ts - 10000 A60 - 11000 96ts - 13000 73ts - 15000 D78 - 15000 Apparently D stock figures were so low this time because the BPMS's that were fitted 2 years ago had decided enough is enough but were under a lifetime guarantee.  What is a lifetime guarantee anyway? Its broken, that was its life, no monies return'd?!!!  Oh yeah, one last comment, Stop bashing C stock!!! ;D They are fabulous people movers, very fit for purpose. They do get a great job especially when you consider the intensity of the service, the number of people they carry, the amount of time they are on the road and the short amount of time they spend in the depot. As a C stock driver, I'm not looking forward to S stock at all. I still don't see how 24 sets of doors can be replaced with 21. |
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Apr 1, 2008 9:53:11 GMT
Very interesting! Very surprised that the 95ts is down the bottom-they've had enough years to bed in surely! Very impressed with the A stock as well-the staff at Neasden must be excellent! How long till the 92ts is more unreliable than the 67ts? Perhaps the old school ATO trains are better?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 9:59:17 GMT
The 95ts is a surprise, especially for a fleet with so many spare trains available. 106 trains with about 80 in service?
The D stock uses quite modern equipment and is relatively modern compared to other stocks. They also have half as many doors to maintain, reducing the chances of a failure.
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 1, 2008 10:18:02 GMT
I read that half of train failures are caused by door problems.
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metman
Global Moderator
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Post by metman on Apr 1, 2008 10:40:46 GMT
I can believe that-hence the C stock suffering!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 19:03:43 GMT
The D stock uses quite modern equipment and is relatively modern compared to other stocks. They also have half as many doors to maintain, reducing the chances of a failure. I thought that the D stock was technically similar to the 73ts or am I mistaken? |
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Post by c5 on Apr 1, 2008 19:04:59 GMT
The D stock uses quite modern equipment and is relatively modern compared to other stocks. They also have half as many doors to maintain, reducing the chances of a failure. I thought that the D stock was technically similar to the 73ts or am I mistaken? 86 (Old Jubilee) ones. Apart from the 85 wearn't very succesful! |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Apr 1, 2008 19:48:12 GMT
1986 tube stock? They were the prototypes for the 92 tube stock...surely you mean the 1983 tube stock JTD?
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Post by c5 on Apr 1, 2008 21:07:57 GMT
1986 tube stock? They were the prototypes for the 92 tube stock...surely you mean the 1983 tube stock JTD? That's the one Four outta 3 numbers aint bad ;D  |
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solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Apr 1, 2008 21:31:28 GMT
D stock were indeed based upon the 73TS, with a small number of changes to improve reliability. The 83TS was then based on the D stock with a number of changes to reduce reliability  ;D ;D Just to add to the figures for reliabilty, the MDBF (Mean Distance Between Failures) is an average across the fleet, so it doesn't take account of how many spare trains are available, just how many times one breaks down based on distance travelled. D stock, certainly at times last year, could get up to, and even beyond, 40,000km MDBF. As another point, in about 2001 (IIRC), D stock were averaging 39,000km MDBF, whilst C stock were averaging just 3,000km MDBF. At that time, I believe the 92TS were at a similar average to the C stock |
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solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Apr 1, 2008 22:36:25 GMT
I read that half of train failures are caused by door problems. I can believe that-hence the C stock suffering! Well in more than 7 years working the C stock, I only ever had problems with the doors twice - and one of those was a ball-point pen trapped in the door runner! So in all honesty, I'd be very surprised if the C stock reliability problems had anything to do with the doors |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 22:48:50 GMT
I've had two C stocks where the Correct Side Door Enable refused to work, leaving me to open all six butterfly cocks! Otherwise I've had very few problems.
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solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Apr 1, 2008 22:58:04 GMT
I've had two C stocks where the Correct Side Door Enable refused to work, leaving me to open all six butterfly cocks! Otherwise I've had very few problems. I'm assuming you mean that the Override also failed to work? In which case, I'd trip out the Signal Feed MCB and try that way ;D ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 23:12:36 GMT
I've had two C stocks where the Correct Side Door Enable refused to work, leaving me to open all six butterfly cocks! Otherwise I've had very few problems. I'm assuming you mean that the Override also failed to work? In which case, I'd trip out the Signal Feed MCB and try that way ;D ;D Yes, I meant the override, and back than I didn't know about the Signal Feed MCB solution! |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 2, 2008 8:24:27 GMT
I'd be very surprised if the C stock reliability problems had anything to do with the doors Another reason why C stock is unreliable is because C stock runs on the Circle. |
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solidbond
Staff Emeritus
'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Apr 2, 2008 8:47:50 GMT
I'd be very surprised if the C stock reliability problems had anything to do with the doors Another reason why C stock is unreliable is because C stock runs on the Circle. Can you explain what that has to do with anything? |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 2, 2008 8:55:48 GMT
Can you explain what that has to do with anything? It said something like that in a book I've got, and the O and P stock became more unreliable when they used them on the Circle. |
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Apr 2, 2008 10:34:01 GMT
You were looking at Steam to Silver which stated the metadyne equipment on the O/P stock became unreliable because of the long working days (staff trains to Uxbridge etc) and the stop-start nature of the Circle Line.
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 2, 2008 13:09:08 GMT
There was another book that said C stock is unreliable because they run on the Circle, it might have been London's Underground (the one with the Yellow Pages C stock train on the front).
CORRECTION: It wasn't a book, it was Tubeprune's web site, at the bottom of the C stock page.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Apr 2, 2008 15:33:28 GMT
C Stock is more knackered than A Stock I'm surprised by the figures. C-Stock are OK for the job they do.  Even I defend the C-Stock when it comes to S-Stock. It's right what they say about new technology, it never works. I don't want A60/62 Stock to go.  |
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;D ;D 
