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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 17:05:58 GMT
Today i was on the central line going to west acton from ealing boradway. As the train left i saw a district line train standing still full of passengers on the curve that leads to wear the district joins the piccadilly to ealing common. The drivers door was open and someone was walking down the tracks (probably the driver). Could this have something to do with the signaling problem?
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 12, 2008 17:45:39 GMT
Was it heading towards Ealing Common? The driver may have wanted to speak to the signaller?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 17:47:47 GMT
It was heading towards Ealing Broadway.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 12, 2008 17:56:33 GMT
Could the driver have been offered a wrong stick?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 18:11:14 GMT
Could the driver have been offered a wrong stick? Not going into Ealing, any signal is acceptable. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 12, 2008 18:36:16 GMT
SPAD?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 18:55:24 GMT
Possibly. Might have approached the speed controlled signal too fast. |
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Post by happybunny on Mar 12, 2008 21:11:02 GMT
That draw-up is a pain in the ***
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Post by c5 on Mar 12, 2008 22:40:59 GMT
It was a SPAD. I don't know what signal though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 23:16:06 GMT
That draw-up is a pain in the *** I can't see the point of it. The home signal is so far from the points that you would have to SPAD it at about 50mph to foul the points! |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 12, 2008 23:21:38 GMT
It mitigates a compromised overlap on WP17 - I'll see what it's good for but I suspect the overlap speed is influenced by vmax from Ealing Common and not the PSR in the area.
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Post by londonstuff on Mar 13, 2008 13:46:53 GMT
What's the procedure after a spad - why does it actually mean a service delay? I would imagine that the driver in question wouldn't be allowed to continue on that train, but why would people be on the track?
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Post by c5 on Mar 13, 2008 14:00:36 GMT
What's the procedure after a spad - why does it actually mean a service delay? I would imagine that the driver in question wouldn't be allowed to continue on that train, but why would people be on the track? For an Automatic Signal. After informing the Service Controller Level 2 (Line Controller role) they can continue on. They will be met at the next station by a Station Supervisor or above who will check they are fit to continue (not shaken up or unfit due to other reasons). They will be taken off the train at the next relief point and interviewed by a Duty Manager Trains. For Semi-Automatic signals they will need to (do the above PLUS) contact the Service Operator/Controller via a Signal Post Telephone (if available), otherwise a Station Supervisor or Operating Official (DMT/DSM) will need get authorisation from the Service Operator/Controller then get to the train to authorise the Train Op to continue. Where points are involved, they will need to be secured for movement over them or a Wrong Direction Move could be carried out to put the train to the rear of the signal. This is a procedure which requires handsignalmen and can take some time. So in essence some signals you can be on the move in minutes, but some can take much longer! |
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Post by happybunny on Mar 13, 2008 19:38:50 GMT
It was a spad on the home signal... the train was set back beyond the signal under the wrong directional move procedure.. altogether took about half hour. All through this time the Picc was suspended Acton to Uxbridge.. I can't see why at all! If there was any Districts stuck between Acton and Ealing common they could have worked into depot and back East via Ealing common WB platform. And if there was a train at Hanger lane JCT waiting to goto EAL (althought if this were the case it would have had to be very close to the train that spadded) they could have sent it to N.Ealing (in order to get passengers off) then worked empty to S.Harrow and back
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 20:53:22 GMT
The Picc suspension might be because the train was being moved back towards Hanger Lane junction - are "them upstairs" paranoid about the limit of a WDM not being observed?
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Post by happybunny on Mar 13, 2008 20:56:22 GMT
That might have been it ADW... they don't trust District drivers with things like approaching the homes at Ealing and Wimbledon without spadding them, then carrying on to cause some kind of crazy incident!
Although of course we know they love to suspend the Uxbridge branch, things like because of a signal failure at Cockfosters, there is no service to Rayners Lane :S :S
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Post by c5 on Mar 13, 2008 21:05:07 GMT
The Picc suspension might be because the train was being moved back towards Hanger Lane junction - are "them upstairs" paranoid about the limit of a WDM not being observed? Well the Hand Signal Person protecting the WDM would have to be at Ealing Common WB (unless trains were stalled nearer). And the SS/Operating Official would have to walk from Ealing Common to the train. |
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Post by happybunny on Mar 13, 2008 21:28:41 GMT
I understand the SS from EAB walked to the train and organised the procedure
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 18, 2008 15:30:49 GMT
That might have been it ADW... they don't trust District drivers with things like approaching the homes at Ealing and Wimbledon without spadding them, then carrying on to cause some kind of crazy incident! Although of course we know they love to suspend the Uxbridge branch, things like because of a signal failure at Cockfosters, there is no service to Rayners Lane :S :S That might be a little unfair as there are precedents for WDMs going awry. RAIB investigated a WDM near High St in 2006 - report at www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/reports_2007/report192007.cfm. In that incident, because of misunderstanding allied with poor communication, a WDM continued past its authorised limit. There are 14 recommendations for action in that report, along with 3 actions LUL had taken by the time the investigation was concluded. Were I the controller in charge of operations on the day in question, I think I would err on the cautious side in light of that report. |
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