Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2009 14:19:25 GMT
Starting a new thread so the one on the Met Line section doesn't get dragged further off topic And from an admin point of view it's totally intriguing (and incongruous?) that the most vociferous complainers on a nostalgic (older=better) line are generally some of our younger members - and those saying 'give them a chance and be positive' are older. Strange that...... I remember reading somewhere that your [Phil's] final point is a recognised psychological occurance. Some study showed that people are generally nostalgic for things that happened on average roughly 30 years before the current time. It could also be argued that people long for something they can't have because of the inherrant romanticised nature of an elusive past. Perhaps the next couple of generations will be nostalgic for the upgrade period of the Central Line. Who knows I've already seen some nostalgia about the 1983 and prototype 1986 stocks around, so it's starting to happen. I do predict that there will be much nostalgia about the S stocks when the time comes to replace them, although I'll be pushing 90 if they last as long as the As have, so I hope I'm still around to be proved right (or wrong!) ;D
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Post by johnb2 on Nov 2, 2009 16:03:44 GMT
I've been following the A stock / S stock threads with some interest, because (showing my age now) I remember the introduction of the A stock replacing the T , C/P stocks and the dear old Met electric locos. I was at school when they came in and then commuted to and from London on them for quite a few years.
When the A's first arrived people thought that they looked pretty modern but didn't like the 3+2 seating much. It could be awfully cramped packing three solidly built individuals onto the 3 side particularly where they are slightly smaller by the door pockets. Then after a comparatively short while the ride deteroriated badly, particularly on the fast run down from Willesden Green to Neasden the bogies shuddered appallingly and over the pointwork at the end of Neasden station they really bounced about. The doors were very sluggish in winter and on some seats there was a savage draught from just under the seat squab which felt as if the back of your knees were being frozen. The heating was also a bit hit and miss, depending where you were in the car you either fried or froze in winter. Then the compressors banging away at every station stop met with mutterings for the City types
In short they were not much loved after the T's went. Now people love them. Well that's nostalgia for you.
However they have done very well to last the best part of 50 years in service. All credit to Cravens who built them and the staff who have kept them going for so long.
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Post by ruislip on Nov 2, 2009 23:19:37 GMT
I've been following the A stock / S stock threads with some interest, because (showing my age now) I remember the introduction of the A stock replacing the T , C/P stocks and the dear old Met electric locos. I was at school when they came in and then commuted to and from London on them for quite a few years. Don't forget the F stock, which shared the Uxbridge service with the CO/CP.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 8, 2009 9:47:45 GMT
Its odd about the ride deteroriating so soon after introduction. Why could this have happened?
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 8, 2009 10:40:13 GMT
It is interesting that from the early days the A stock suspension was not all that. This was found even before the A62 stock arrived. The suspension was modified on the A62 order with some elements inverted! However it was noted that it was far better than the T stock and Steam stock it replaced, they being described as a cocktail shaker on wheels in one book!
Some of the track was new but I would assume some of it was old. This may explain the poor ride. Also the speed of the trains wouldn't have helped. Neither the T stock or Dreadnought travelled at 70mph!
After the refurb the suspension was upgraded and I personally think this gave the A stock a real lift. They don't have the best ride, but on good or new track the ride is ok and can be smooth. The Neasden points have always been rubbish by the sound of it!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Nov 8, 2009 11:02:26 GMT
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
I too remember the a stock just after its intorduction but I came onto the scene just too late to see the Met locos et al.
In my railway career I've been lucky(?) to have worked on a variety of what is now called heritage stock!
On the District I had the last of the Q stock; COs were brought in to replace them; on the Met the A stock was not even midway through its life, though we still had John Hampden as well as Sarah Siddons and ESL118.
Onto BR at Rugby, the early AC electrics and class 25 diesels; Kings Cross with the legendary Deltics and loco-hauled suburban trains to Moorgate via the widened Lines.
Driving on the Southern with the Bullied 4-SUBs and the 1942 W&C stock as well as the now extinct 4EPBs and all that era...
And now of course there is nostalgia for the 508's for some strange reason!! they were bloody awful trains, quite nippy, but impossible to stop where you wanted them to.
Part of the nostalgia that is missing from the current railway is the ability to have the odd pint on duty; the elfensafetea culture where any sort of practical joke can get you the sack or jailed for endangering lives, even though none of the practical jokes I ever heard of endangered anyone!
Drinking real tea in tea cans. Oil tail lamps. Sempahore signals. Edmunson tickets. All real nostalgia. Doing the first Edgware Road to Wimbledon and following a pannier tank and engineers train through the tunnel to High Street.
It's more noticable in the bus preservation world where folks are now preserving Olympians and the likes. who wants an RT or RF these days? No-one remembers them aparts from us borings old farts!
Mind you, I was nattering with a restaurant owner in Folkestone the other day who said she missed the air displays. Sensing a bit of a wind-up as she was possibly slightly older than me I said were those the ones that had loads of Spitfires? Yes, she replied. Daft bat I said, that was the Battle of Britain! I got a clump round the ear cos she wasn't really that old!!
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Nov 8, 2009 18:07:12 GMT
Ha ha ha!! You are a lucky chap to have driven, let alone been in some of those trains!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2009 19:48:09 GMT
It is strange how some more modern stuff gets people dewy eyed. As a class 66 driver I long for the days when I could end up on a 33 (rough as old boots but superb locos full of character), 37 (noisy as hell and wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding but a smooth ride and there's something about driving a loco with a nose!), 47 (did most jobs but don't overload them), 58 (the master of any job that Eastleigh could give it), 60 (would pull several houses down) or 73 (could be driven standing up. Fantastic little locos but mind the gaps). I always thought that class 60s would outlive my railway career but it looks like I will outlast them by some considerable margin. The regular sight of class 73s in the sidings at Eastleigh when I book on brings it all back.
Roythebus, you are indeed a lucky man to have driven the likes of Q stock et al. Any specific memories you have need to be written down for us who love those days. This especially goes for any work you did on Nos 5 and 12.......
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 9, 2009 3:21:57 GMT
Very true indeed! Anyone that has first hand experience of those stocks has a duty to share the experience! Especially where its never to run again, like the T, F, and R stock. But to take this further, who still alive now can claim to have driven the met saloon stock, or the gate stock, for example? Such things have been lost to time.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Nov 9, 2009 8:04:35 GMT
90 cars of Saloon Circle Stock ran till 1950 so you never know?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 9, 2009 9:05:46 GMT
Indeed, but even 1950 is almost 60 years ago now, and you'd have had to pass out before then, so say someone in their mid 20's. Would make them in their 80s now. Someone should deffinitely write a book about it before too long. Anyone driven a C&SLR loco then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2009 10:24:33 GMT
I was only 1 when the Circle stock was withdrawn. However, I do remember the 1954 exhibition at Willesden (1938 stock 11141, P Stock 13200 and R Stock 22680), handworked door stock on the Olympia service (missed it on the 'main'), the old LMS signalling on the Upminster line, the 1956 stock new in service (and the special public demonstration runs between Acton and Hounslow) and them running as 3- and 4-car trains off peaks. I suppose the most scariest thing as a kid for me was seeing a little two car tube train (Pre-1938) on the Northern City with what seemed like really long platforms and huge tunnels. I could go on - but better not!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
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Post by roythebus on Nov 9, 2009 21:20:25 GMT
Indeed, but even 1950 is almost 60 years ago now, and you'd have had to pass out before then, so say someone in their mid 20's. Would make them in their 80s now. Someone should deffinitely write a book about it before too long. Anyone driven a C&SLR loco then? No, but have driven a 1907 tram in Gothenberg (www.ringlineien.sweden); class 111 and 110 in Germany; steam on the Ooty line in Injah; am I really that old that I need to write a book about it? Speaking to someone on the TTA in Belgium, he asked if I'd driven a trolleybus? no not yet. He has one in the Liege museum. There was one weekend about 1993 when I drove the following buses: RT.RF,GS,BEA,RTL,RM,RMC,RMA,MBA,DMS,RP and the Tilling STL! I had to move my entire fleet around, plus did some driving at Showbus when it was at North Weald.
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