Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 19:18:27 GMT
An interesting program on the BBC this week about the Art Deco era and what LT contributed - the insides of 55 Broadway look absolutely brilliant. I wonder how much lower the quality would be if built today... Anyway, here is the iPlayer link
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Oct 31, 2009 19:28:36 GMT
The programme content itself was excellent, the postal system, the roof terrace, etc. Just a pity the presenter was so dreadful! For those that pass through St James's Park tube station, there's a small display on the westbound platform about the old station and how it's been changed over the years.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 20:07:15 GMT
Good programme!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2009 20:27:39 GMT
Just watched this on iplayer. Not bad, but personally i'd like to see what the executive dining room looked like. +`````````
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2009 21:53:02 GMT
The "executive dining room" is nothing out of the ordinary but it is 'nice'. It is on the 10th floor and is used for special events, such as presentations, retirements, etc.
Not quite sure when, but probably late-1980s, there was an "Officers Dining Club" on the 2nd floor west wing, but this was abolished around that time. Unless you were an 'officer', you didn't get to go in there uninvited !
Going back to 1965 when I first started with LT, the main lifts in the foyer at 55 Broadway were still staff operated, with people telling the operator which floor they wanted. "Grace Brothers" seems to come to mind ..... ;D ;D ;D
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,416
|
Post by Chris M on Nov 1, 2009 22:35:20 GMT
I wonder how much lower the quality would be if built today... I suspect that it would be something very similar to the tower block by West Kensington station (Ashfield House?)
|
|
|
Post by angelislington on Nov 1, 2009 23:46:32 GMT
The "executive dining room" is nothing out of the ordinary but it is 'nice'. It is on the 10th floor and is used for special events, such as presentations, retirements, etc. You're not wrong - I was rather underwhelmed with the decor. However, the food really was the biz and the view - well, even that was topped by the sheer kudos, of me a lowly Grade A, being on the 10th floor!
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Nov 2, 2009 1:47:28 GMT
The programme content itself was excellent, the postal system, the roof terrace, etc. Just a pity the presenter was so dreadful! For those that pass through St James's Park tube station, there's a small display on the westbound platform about the old station and how it's been changed over the years. I'm so glad it wasn't only me that thought the presenter was rubbish! I spent many happy hours working in various parts of 55 Broadway from the basement switchroom, old and new telephone exchanges, old HQ controller offices, PIR, MICC and NCC and also the highest point of the roof, when I was tasked with shifting a satellite dish down to the roof of the wing over station a few years ago. I worked in some of the office areas, enjoyed the food in the canteen and in the good old days drinks at the bar too! I enjoyed the programme immensely and noted things that I had never noticed on the many occasions that I worked.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Nov 2, 2009 1:54:37 GMT
The "executive dining room" is nothing out of the ordinary but it is 'nice'. It is on the 10th floor and is used for special events, such as presentations, retirements, etc. You're not wrong - I was rather underwhelmed with the decor. However, the food really was the biz and the view - well, even that was topped by the sheer kudos, of me a lowly Grade A, being on the 10th floor! I can understand that (the kudos) but even the officers didn't go to the thirteenth floor, no lifts to there, stairs and then a ladder! I recall having to move some equipment from a wooden temporary office at the bottom of the ladder down to the fourth floor back in the 1980s though I can't recall exactly what it was now. On the food front I preferred the food at the Griffin Rooms at South Kensington to anything I eat at 55 Broadway even though the food at both was excellent.
|
|
|
Post by mikebuzz on Nov 2, 2009 9:59:44 GMT
Goodish program, poor presenter, worse researchers. Poor old Stanley and Beck, not even a mention (it wasn't all about 55 Bdy)!
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Nov 2, 2009 11:22:47 GMT
Beck got a mention, not a big one and not in his own context mind.
Didn't warm to the presenter as authoritive or evuncular, but he at least seemed keen on the topic. A subject like that though could easily be made into an entire series on the design heritage of the tube.
|
|
|
Post by jswallow on Nov 2, 2009 12:27:59 GMT
But why should Beck get a mention in a programme about 55 Broadway? Other than the mention in passing about the Underground diagram that would replace the one on display in the stairwell?
I must say it wasn't the most watchable programme I've ever watched.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Nov 2, 2009 12:28:18 GMT
Beck got a mention, not a big one and not in his own context mind. Didn't warm to the presenter as authoritive or evuncular, but he at least seemed keen on the topic. A subject like that though could easily be made into an entire series on the design heritage of the tube. Beck did get a mention in his own context but only the old Underground map was shown as it was the subject being located on one of the stairway landings. The programme is of course part of a series on Art Deco design I believe. I have not seen other programmes in the series.
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Nov 2, 2009 13:37:35 GMT
An interesting idea let down by an ill-informed presenter,
No mention that the timeclocks haven't worked for years.
The shops only went in in the 1980s when the reception was installed in a former public area so was the combination of retail and station in a single space really a conception of Holden?
The "Cullen" mail chutes were not primarily designed to send mail around the floors of 55, but were for external communication (thus lettered "London" and "Country" to sort these).
Did office workers really not have (pocket) watches in the late-20s and thus needed clocks in the corridors?
The pre-Beck enamel map was only installed in 2009!
The "Executive Dining Room" is long gone and the 10th floor now has a dated "Jazz" type pseudo deco decor from the 1980s.
The former LT Chairman's wood-panelled office on the 7th floor still exists, complete with oil-painting of Lord Ashfield, yet was strangely omitted.
Things got worse when it moved away from 55. The LTM guy referring to Edward "Johnson" instead of "Johnston", an unforgivable error! Reference was made to new signage using a white background, yet the example used to illustrate this was one of the early LPTB cream/yellow "tombstone" style.
Nor have I ever heard of the 3-flight bullseye Mexican arrow supposedly representing someone "entering the Tube", it was just a clever play on the roundel.
3 out of 10 for effort.
|
|
|
Post by mikebuzz on Nov 2, 2009 16:32:11 GMT
I wasn't too impressed with the comments implied or stated about the Paris 1923 Art Decoratif exhibition being behind design ideas or the suggestion it all developed at thee end of the '20's onwards. When 55 Broadway was being built the Underground was the same organisation as it was under Yerkes and many ideas like the typeface, logo, posters and, signs go back to before WWI and the 1925 Exhibition, and Howard Carter's discoveries were influential too. New York/Chicago were a big influence through the company's American connections going way back too, and Holden's aping of New York architecture.
The program was ostensibly about 55 Broadway so it wasn't going to concentrate much on the Underground generally (yes it deserves its own program at least) or Holden's work outside of it but it could have done a lot better where it did.
BTW the presenter's first program on Claridges was much better.
|
|
|
Post by angelislington on Nov 2, 2009 17:00:52 GMT
I absolutely LOVE the Art Deco period (in fact, it's what got me loving the UndergrounD) so I have been waiting for this programme - and in fact the series and season - for some time. I am delighted that these examples have been chosen to be investigated - Claridge's, Casa del Rio and the Orient Express also feature - rather than the standard places which are hoisted as good examples. Don't get me wrong, there are some stunning examples of Art Deco style around London and the UK, but it's always the same ones which get picked. Places such as 55 Broadway and the Hoover building on the A40 are absolutely prize examples of Deco in Britain but are oddly often overlooked. I was rather put off by the presenter. He wanders around preventing the cameraman from showing details or overviews properly; he ad libs and points out this then that then something else too quickly for the cameraman to be able to display to us the details, and in ad libbing wanders around the topic too much. I was very disappointed that the camera didn't take in the whole of the posters before showing us detail, for instance. Some of it wasn't labelled or identified either - the station circulating area right at the start of the programme, and the archer at East Finchley ( my archer, lol!). If I had half an hour to cover Art Deco on the Underground, I'd probably have focussed on much the same subject material as he did, but it would certainly have had more of a flow. I consider myself hugely lucky to have worked at Head Office for the 9 short months that I did and would spend literally hours wandering around the stairwells and corridors just soaking up the Deco-ness of it all, and I'm really, really happy that other people have had a glimpse of one of the period's most perfect examples. But 'Johnson'? Sheesh! Working for the Depot, too! <shakes head in disgust>
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 19:00:14 GMT
An interesting idea let down by an ill-informed presenter, No mention that the timeclocks haven't worked for years. The shops only went in in the 1980s when the reception was installed in a former public area so was the combination of retail and station in a single space really a conception of Holden? The "Cullen" mail chutes were not primarily designed to send mail around the floors of 55, but were for external communication (thus lettered "London" and "Country" to sort these). Did office workers really not have (pocket) watches in the late-20s and thus needed clocks in the corridors? The pre-Beck enamel map was only installed in 2009! The "Executive Dining Room" is long gone and the 10th floor now has a dated "Jazz" type pseudo deco decor from the 1980s. The former LT Chairman's wood-panelled office on the 7th floor still exists, complete with oil-painting of Lord Ashfield, yet was strangely omitted. Things got worse when it moved away from 55. The LTM guy referring to Edward "Johnson" instead of "Johnston", an unforgivable error! Reference was made to new signage using a white background, yet the example used to illustrate this was one of the early LPTB cream/yellow "tombstone" style. Nor have I ever heard of the 3-flight bullseye Mexican arrow supposedly representing someone "entering the Tube", it was just a clever play on the roundel. 3 out of 10 for effort. With all that information, you could had presented that programme
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,100
|
Post by Tom on Nov 2, 2009 22:33:16 GMT
No mention that the timeclocks haven't worked for years. I can't speak for the other lines but I d know the Bakerloo line timeclock feeds still leave from Piccadilly Circus.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Nov 3, 2009 12:22:06 GMT
Would it be worth restoring them as a feature?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 17:04:06 GMT
As far as I can recall, the time clocks in the foyer at 55 Broadway used to be changed by the SJP Station Supervisor. There was a duplicate set of clocks in the Head Controller's office in Room 222 which were changed by him. These were removed probably 20 years ago when the room was refurbished. One certain Operations Director (pre 20 years ago) frequently came in and looked at the interval clocks to see that any 'gaps' were explained - we had to write the reason for the gap on the paper clock dial and they were examined in minute detail. We called this ceremony "the blessing of the clocks" ;D ;D ;D
Rumour has it that the then Operations Director then compared the clocks in the foyer with those in 222, to make sure there was no skulduggery or cover up going on!
Quite why the staff at SJP didn't continue to change the paper dials I can't remember, and I don't know if any of them still work anyway now.
Of course, there is no Head Controller any more - he (they) disappeared under the Company Plan (remember that - "a new dawn for the heart of London" so the 'spin' said) and re-emerged as Duty Managers in the then Network Control Centre, now the Network Operations Centre.
|
|
bowchurch
The next train on Platform 2 is the District Line to...
Posts: 86
|
Post by bowchurch on Nov 16, 2009 2:34:35 GMT
I was rather put off by the presenter. He wanders around preventing the cameraman from showing details or overviews properly; I've just got round to watching the programme and am inclined to agree with angelislington. I guess there was a lot to fit in, but it would have been nice to let the architecture speak for itself once in a while. One thing that surprised me was how many details are similar to Bush House, and yet Bush is a bit early for Art Deco. But the designs of the lift lobbies and stairs lined with Tivertine marble are like 55 Broadway, along with the bronze mail chutes going to the basement. EDIT: I've managed to find photos here and here
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 12:56:35 GMT
No mention that the timeclocks haven't worked for years. I can't speak for the other lines but I d know the Bakerloo line timeclock feeds still leave from Piccadilly Circus. We have a master clock at Earl's Court for the district but it only gets too around Embankment with the bad cabling then from Embankment they have radio rugby clocks to work the various sites but only going as far as Tower Hill
|
|
|
Post by mileendfan on Nov 16, 2009 18:03:51 GMT
55 Broadway is very much like Senate House Russell Square, both inside and out, which was also designed by Holden. Broadcasting house also feels similar inside.
Best wishes
Hugh
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Nov 16, 2009 20:26:40 GMT
I can't speak for the other lines but I d know the Bakerloo line timeclock feeds still leave from Piccadilly Circus. We have a master clock at Earl's Court for the district but it only gets too around Embankment with the bad cabling then from Embankment they have radio rugby clocks to work the various sites but only going as far as Tower Hill Over the years the clock system has not been maintained as well as it might have been. Until the introduction of the Rugby clock receivers as standalone 'master clocks' all clock pulses were generated and derived at Leicester Square clock rack with subsidiary clock racks at Baker Street and IIRC also at St James's Park. There were many traditional electromechanical master clocks on each line generating 'local' clock pulses but generally these were standby clock pulses as the main hourly sync and half minute clock pulses were repeated down the line from the main clock rack. The hourly clock pulse for room 222 & BBMS came from a 60v style 'F' relay in the 'snakepit' beneath Leicester Square old exchange and unless someone has altered the arrangement the same relay still feeds the hourly sync pulse for BBMS from the NOC which I installed when it was opened. Interestingly I installed a Rugby clock receiver to supply half minute clock pulses to the BTP info room and NOC, these were just coming into vogue at the time but there is so much electrical interference within 55, Broadway that I recall having real difficulty finding a location in the BTP Comms equipment room that gave a reliable output. When the control rooms were given centralised longline PA systems in the early 1980s the systems were also supposed to carry clock pulses to every station, this being achieved with 50 baud modems superimposing a signal over the PA control cable to drive the clock cards in each PA rack which in turn were to locally drive all the clocks on a site. In the event the 50 baud modems were found to be unreliable and were removed, the PA racks supplying local half minute clock pulse output from each rack's standby clock board as local standalone unsynchronised master clocks gradually replacing other clock systems. With the introduction of the local Rugby radio clock units the 'Railway Time' black box time repeaters began to appear at many stations carrying the clock pulses from top station deep down to all platforms via a local distribution network. I assume that this remains the most up to date system though I don't know and would not be at all surprised to learn that timing is done in other ways such as synchronising to NTP time servers via the intranet. As in all things LUL it takes a long time for some things to change and the clock system is one excellent example as many of the stations still display American self winders taking up to + or - 4 minute adjustments on the strike of the hourly pulse hammer to correct the time to the hour. AFAIK many old hourly sync, half minute, half minute bi-di and one minute clocks are still to be found all over the combine on series and parallel circuits alongside all the later systems but are probably being replaced and upgraded as they become faulty and beyond economical repair. The temptation of course being to take and old clock face and work it from modern technology, LUL has quite a bit of that around as well usually done in station modernisation works.
|
|