Parsons Green - shunt signal question

i need not to add anything else except one train in the morning goes from 25 road to 24 road so thats WF 12 then WF4 rt 3 then WF6 rt 2

btw WF 8 and WF 37 even though they are psyically still there on the ground they are not in use and been taken out of commission the levers have been plated normal and the outgoing fuses to the shunts have been removed

Have a look in yer line supplement - 27 'top' is officially 25 road, whilst 27 'bottom' is the proper 27 road

A quick look in the WTT reveals that on M-F & Sun, the train runs to Earls Court empty from 24 road. Why it can't go straight from the eastbound is a mystery to me

On Saturdays, the train goes from 24 road to the Westbound platform, then into passenger service down to Wimbledon.

Are you going for the I/O job now? ;D ;D ;D You are absolutely correct again - trains from 21/22 roads going east don't enter service till Fulham Broadway.

Trains can arrive on the east (from Putney Bridge) and then reverse into 21/22 roads. They usually arrive empty because, as you've mentioned, the rear of the train has to be clear of 16 points and behind WF4.

If it's a C stock, it will just fit when the front is pulled right up to the station starter (WF38).

D stocks have to be about a car past WF38 to ensure the rear is clear of 16 points/WF4 - because of this, the move is only timetabled for C stocks.

EDIT: As you can probably tell, Parsons Green might only have 8 sidings and a fairly simple looking layout, but once you start looking at all the possible moves, it gets very complicated indeed.

Here's another for ya.........An eastbound train (from Putney Bridge) can stable in 28 road. Can you see it Dr Jimi?

For everyone else, heres a diagram of the area (28 road isn't there, but it's to the east of the station, just past WF3. 27 Road is also off the diagram - it's attached to 25 road if you're trying to follow the discussion.

I was looking at the line diagrams in the 2003 issue (the image above) when I posted that comment - the June 2007 issue walkway diagrams also show it as 25 & 27.

This image (on the Anorak Heaven website) shows the service control diagram, which if you can make it out, also shows 25 & 27.

Some of the text in the line supplement, which describes the moves in the line knowledge, is a little misleading as that's where you see the references to 27 top & bottom. I suppose in a sense we're both right (as we are ultimately talking about the same siding, and that's mutually understood), but it's certainly not helpful when there's conflicting information going around.

Oh yeah, didn't look at that part!

I'm happy that we are both right! It doesn't happen to me very often! ;D

Thank you again!

Colin -- me going for I/Op? Virtual T/Op maybe I'm just enjoying puzzling this out. I actually discovered the train out of 21/22 sidings fouling 16 points in our simulated version, and then went to look more closely at the chart to see if we got the sim correctly to scale. Seems we're close ;D I then wondered as to the implication, which you've confirmed.

Re the EB train going to 28 siding... As a direct EB-WB road move is not possible (single slip), then I conclude a reverse off the EB via WF6 to (say) siding 23, then WF32 route 2 to the WB wrong road, then WF26 clearing for siding 28. Seems a 'mirror' move for a WB train into siding 25/27 reversing to the EB wrong road via 21/22 sidings is also possible.

As you note, many combinations are technically doable! That was in part the root cause of my questions as to what moves were 'usual' or required. This has been most entertaining and informative. My thanks to you all.

One final question, prompted by the service diagram photo. It seems that a lot of shunt sigs on the diagram are 'illuminated'. How is a shunt on/off depicted on that diagram? Red/lit if off? Red on vs. green off?

Best, Jimi

The new diagram panels were created by taking the measurements from the original panels. In some instances this meant that not all the original indications were 100% correctly sighted behind the new panels. I spent several shifts realigning many of the signal indications to give a better appearance but only the junction signal indications were adjustable to any great extent. For shunts and standard running signals the adjustment was limited to how close to the diagram glass the indication bulbs could be located and remain in contact with the 'lampholder' contacts. To be honest 'sighting' a signal at trackside was an easier task than 'sighting' a signal indication on the diagram!

Sighting Committee? Gosh never heard of it! In the old days the installation supervisors used to do the sighting. It's not something I've had anything to do with since the late 1970s and I was just a wireman with a spanner then!
My point about sighting was a tongue-in-cheek mechanical one and cognisant of the fact that a signal head has plenty of adjustment in three dimensions and usually adjustment in the lampholder within as well, however, there being no real adjustment of the position of a 'wedge' signal indication bulb against two side contacts which can only loosely be called a 'lampholder'!

I really can't recall now whether the team of technical artists that descended on Earls Court had the drawings of the original diagram panels or not. I was not really involved in the project directly but got roped in because I was control room night TO at the time. What I do recall is the many hours of measurements that were taken before the first sample panel appeared. As I recall it was a half panel to show the types of finish available for the final work, from memory there were two backings which varied in opacity and some minor differences in the actual symbols and lettering and the signal operators made their choice before all the panels went into production. ISTR that at least one panel was spoiled because it contained errors but it had a use as it was left on display in the complex for all shifts to have a chance to see what was coming.
I got more involved at the fitting stage as I was given the job of fitting the clocks behind the new panels, assisting with the fitting of the new panels and refitting all the metal beading which had been sent away to be powder coated. Lining up the panels was not as easy as it might've been because the new ones were not exact replacements for the old and so the choice of preferred 'sighting' was given to the signal operators and I had to try and match it!

What I will say is that the new panels improved visibility greatly when testing sites although one had to know where to sit to some degree to get the best overall view of a site because some indications definitely did disappear at some angles.

Interesting, I never saw a train used to sight a signal years ago. Mind you lots of things are done differently nowadays. Having said that I never saw a starter sighted, the ones I recall were all tunnel sticks.
Of course cost is not an issue these days as we know, it doesn't matter if a job takes an entire shift or longer.