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Post by flippyff on Oct 19, 2009 18:30:42 GMT
I thought the platform advert projectors were meant to switch off when a train approached the platform? I was on a Northern CX branch train this morning and the platform projector was still projecting while the train was stationary in the platform. I think Euston was the station in question but I could be mistaken.
Simon
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2009 19:27:11 GMT
They do occasionally malfunction - this could be one of those times!
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Post by happybunny on Oct 19, 2009 22:52:24 GMT
These things must be the stupidest invention ever. The boxes are huge and very very unsightly, they must take so so much power and throw out loads of heat onto the platform I would imagine ! So much for going green ! LUL is one of the most un-green companies I have ever known !
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Post by alanbennett on Oct 19, 2009 23:17:36 GMT
I seem to recall reading in a Traffic Circular that they are not allowed to be turned off by LUL staff if they stay on when a train comes into the platform! I think it said that it has to be done remotely by CBS Outdoor. These things must be the stupidest invention ever. The boxes are huge and very very unsightly, they must take so so much power and throw out loads of heat onto the platform I would imagine ! So much for going green ! LUL is one of the most un-green companies I have ever known ! That's why all the confectionery and drink vending machines and photo booths were removed - to even out the extra costs for the XTP and increased use of backlit and LCD advert sites. I reckon that the Connect radio system must be another massive power consumer, all those massive terminals at every station blasting out heat and then needing air con to cool the room down!
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Post by happybunny on Oct 19, 2009 23:32:14 GMT
Yeah I too was shocked that the radio system needed such big loads of 'gubbins' all over the shop... makes me wonder, I understand and BTP and MET also use a similar digital system with the same handsets, I don't see big massive boxes of equipment on every street corner though...
Back onto the advert things, great world class service LUL, the posters have virtually nil benefit for punters, but the vending machines had much. I remember I was on I think it was OXO Central platform and a punter suddenly had a diabetic attack, his quick thinking friend ran to the vending machine close by and got 2 bars of chocolate and quickly fed this to him.... imagine how much longer it would take to get all the way to the surface to get a similar fix (whilst he lay on the platform dying (watching a lovely video advert on the wall))...
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 19, 2009 23:35:16 GMT
They don't typically have to operate in tunnels though.
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Post by happybunny on Oct 19, 2009 23:38:23 GMT
They don't typically have to operate in tunnels though. But the equipment isn't just in tunnel areas, I have seen it many many miles out of the way of tunnel sections (at the far east of the District for example).
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Post by plasmid on Oct 20, 2009 22:29:46 GMT
My friend works at CBS Outdoor and is in charge of a support team which maintains them.
They use rally car spec inter-coolers to help keep them cool which quite frankly says a lot about the amount of heat they produce.
They are supposed to turn off immediately although they seem to fail a lot of times which is why my friend manages a team dedicated to fixing these devices. Bit of a waste of money and resources again CBS? They have a coffee machine which costs £20,000 a year to maintain and provide coffee supplies at their Camden branch. My friend earns less than this.
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 20, 2009 22:43:27 GMT
I'd assume they would be pretty beefy projectors - normal ones wouldn't take kindly to being switched on and off with such frequency.
I suppose if they want to put them in to generate revenue, more fool them if it gets wasted supporting it!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 0:47:38 GMT
I'd assume they would be pretty beefy projectors - normal ones wouldn't take kindly to being switched on and off with such frequency. You don't need to actually switch the projector off. Just cut off the input signal so it projects black.
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Post by 100andthirty on Oct 21, 2009 5:05:43 GMT
on those that I've seen don't switch off - due, say, to a fault - the projected beam goes onto the roof of the train and doesn't get in anyone's way. Unless there's some over-riding need (say to do with air time for the adverts), I'd vote for leaving them on. I certainly can't see how they'd distract the T/op of an approaching trains!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 6:08:01 GMT
When they've stayed on at Knightsbridge, the image is projected over the train, including over open doors. I assume the logic for having them go off is that a moving image on the opposite side to the platform may divert attention away from the important side, although I've found that them switching off is equally distracting; the change tends to momentarily attract my attention.
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Post by abe on Oct 21, 2009 7:42:03 GMT
I've read that the switching off as trains approach is nothing to do with safety, but instead because the advertisers don't want the adverts distorted by being projected onto the sides of trains.
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Post by plasmid on Oct 21, 2009 8:14:58 GMT
they switch off because cab operators complained about being blinded as they drove into a station.
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Post by happybunny on Oct 21, 2009 10:19:57 GMT
I've read that the switching off as trains approach is nothing to do with safety, but instead because the advertisers don't want the adverts distorted by being projected onto the sides of trains. Advertisers are often very strange in the requests they make.. I remember when the Heathrow Connect service started a few years back, I worked at Ealing Bdy at the time and saw the official BAA/First service briefing notes for all operational staff prior to it starting and it said: "Should a class 360 unit be unavailable for service it must NOT be substituted with a class 332. This is because of the RBS branding carried on the first class carriages, and RBS have stipulated they don't want there good name stopping in places like Hayes and Southall" One of my colleagues who lives in Hayes wasn't too impressed ;D
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North End
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Post by North End on Oct 21, 2009 10:28:26 GMT
on those that I've seen don't switch off - due, say, to a fault - the projected beam goes onto the roof of the train and doesn't get in anyone's way. Unless there's some over-riding need (say to do with air time for the adverts), I'd vote for leaving them on. I certainly can't see how they'd distract the T/op of an approaching trains! The reason they switch off is because it's considered unsafe having passengers' attention focussed on the adverts as a train is approaching.
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Post by thirstquensher on Oct 24, 2009 18:00:20 GMT
Maybe barriers should be erected at the platform edge in the areas that face directly on to one of the projection screens, lest anyone gets so 'drawn in' to the advert that they continue to step closer and closer towards it and off the edge.
Once the JNUP is finished, and the trains have to dock at pre-defined positions - and hence the doors, couldn't barriers be put up along the platform edges except for where the doors will be?
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Post by happybunny on Oct 24, 2009 21:46:00 GMT
What if the driver overuns by a few inches when driving manually? The doors will open onto a barrier
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Post by angelislington on Nov 5, 2009 7:16:06 GMT
Doesn't seem to matter on the Jubbly, does it?
Anyway, I hate the moving posters on escalators, they give me a sense of vertigo.
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Post by thirstquensher on Nov 5, 2009 22:24:31 GMT
Doesn't seem to matter on the Jubbly, does it? Anyway, I hate the moving posters on escalators, they give me a sense of vertigo. Thanks Angel! You said both of the things I was going to say, and did it for me so I don't have to! Once the JNUP project is finished trains should always dock properly except for the odd time when the're a c. 1ft under- or over-run, which wouldn't pose a problem. I always start to trip if one of those damn "scrolling" posters sets off just as I'm walking up to/past it, because I instinctively aim to put my next foot down 1 foot lower than before, because I feel as if the ground is suddenly 1 foot lower than it is. No matter how hard I try to psyche myself into not getting fooled by this, my instincts override the logic every time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2009 23:20:20 GMT
Personally I don't mind the scrolling LCD screens but I can see how they could be distracting. I don't like the projected adverts on the tunnel wall though. For starters the colour/contrast is all wrong and the huge projector enclosures are hideous. I don't know the specifics of these particular projectors but I think you'll find the projector is much smaller than the box. I would guess the boxes are partly to keep the projectors clean as they don't like getting dirty and would fail quite quickly without some sort of protection. Obviously you can't seal something like a projector in an air tight box without some other form of cooling which must be integrated into the box.... hence the big box.
It will be interesting to see how often the lamps get changed too. Projectors tend to get a bit dim as the lamp ages so it will be interesting to see what the criteria for re-lamping is.
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Post by sashy on Nov 6, 2009 18:28:17 GMT
The station Adverts can be a real pain as contractors turn up to do "resets" because the bulbs overheat, & also the "timing section" that is supposed to turn them on/off as the train approaches/departs often fails, As a word of caution CBS who do the adverts are looking at how to do adverts in the tunnel !! this is for customers to see as they travel between stations !!!! How this would effect T/Ops is anybodys guess, let alone the logistics of installation.
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Post by slugabed on Nov 6, 2009 20:06:13 GMT
As a word of caution CBS who do the adverts are looking at how to do adverts in the tunnel !! this is for customers to see as they travel between stations !!!! I seem to remember something like this being proposed in the '70s....perhaps on "Tomorrow's World"......the idea being that a series of still images,on the tunnel wall,would appear to move,like stop-frame animation,as the train passed through. It always seemd implausible to me,for reasons I could never quite put my finger on. Was it ever trialled? Does anyone else remember this?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2009 21:08:59 GMT
I do remember this - about 1985?
I think it was/is operational somewhere in continental Europe. I'm heading out now, but will have a search tomorrow and post if I find anything.
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Post by thirstquensher on Nov 6, 2009 21:34:43 GMT
Perhaps I should clarify that by "scrolling" adverts I don't mean the LCD screens. They give me no problem at all. I mean the ones where two adverts are printed on a paper strip, which is wound round every few seconds by a good old-fashioned motor.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 7, 2009 8:02:42 GMT
As a word of caution CBS who do the adverts are looking at how to do adverts in the tunnel !! this is for customers to see as they travel between stations !!!! I seem to remember something like this being proposed in the '70s....perhaps on "Tomorrow's World"......the idea being that a series of still images,on the tunnel wall,would appear to move,like stop-frame animation,as the train passed through. It always seemd implausible to me,for reasons I could never quite put my finger on. Was it ever trialled? Does anyone else remember this? It's been discussed elsewhere on the forum, but I remember seeing animated adverts (it looked like LEDs) in the S-bahn tunnel between Frankfurt Airport and Frankfurt city centre. The advert I saw was of a stick man running along side the train, I think it was for Addidas or some brand like that. It was rather cleverly done. If this is the same way that CBS are thinking of doing it in London then it should in theory be possible for the timing to be such that the t/ops never see it switched on while driving. I'd have thought that the large amount of cabling in the tunnels, frequently at about window level, would provide too great a logistical obstacle to something like this being installed.
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Post by sashy on Nov 7, 2009 18:12:40 GMT
CBS have been putting in a lot of fibre optic cable lately, which runs from station to station, I believe the "intention" is to install mini cameras that beam light back into the tunnel rings giving the appearance of images, if it works then CBS will get approx 50k per side per section ! (who said theres no money about ?)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 9:41:39 GMT
I really don't mind them - and apparently they are greener than the alternative of paper posters wihch need to be transported in lorries etc. in the long run. They are pretty damn big though; I'm sure that could be refined.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 21:04:13 GMT
There was a tunnel installation in the Heathrow Express tunnels. Was marginally impressive when I first saw it. And then just annoying. Press release from BAA: bit.ly/7pSxCoAnother report: bit.ly/7rvcwNYoutube: bit.ly/89Hr3J
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