PASSINGER (OR IS IT CUSTOMER) DOOR CONTROL

It would certainly be very confusing on the Wimbledon branch if the D stock doors were passenger operated and the C stock doors were operated by the driver...

Personally I used to like the PDC because of the amount of time we could make up especially on the late shift last trip, because of the poor lighting at stations in those days and the excellent lighting from within the car of the D, we could see even if just one door opened up. Of course no doors open press the close button and wind up and go straight away.

I think one of the major issues with PDC was without doubt the cold weather and selective close, when it was cold we selected selective close and at terminus's passengers were confused because they expected the doors to open when they pressed the buttons, then you have people trying to open the doors forcefully because there are people on the train already and they want to be on there.

The good thing was again at terminus's, when we changed ends after putting the control key in we closed all the doors and selected passenger door open, this gave the red lights and if no buttons were sticking in all the doors would remain closed until selected to open by the passenger, nice and warm and cozy.

So PDC was good and I liked it but the depots kept playing around with the PDC, because when they pulled the fuses for PDC out they didn't pull them all out and some trains were running with PDC and some weren't, the same for going back to PDC.
Plus the issues with buttons stuck in and yobs playing with the buttons and buttons not illuminating.

TMBA

I think that these days passengers will be more familiar with the concept of PDC because it is now so widespread on National Rail.
That's PDC in the modern sense, not the old doors that you had to swing open - that really was passenger door control!

However, door buttons have been standard on NR since the 80s - when Sprinters and Pacers (awful things) were introduced.

The DLR seems to cope perfectly well with passenger operated doors.

I note that there are no door buttons on the refurbished D78s anyway.

Standing for a long time at a station in cold weather with the doors open really does annoy me - and most of my experience is on the 95TS.

I can understand arguments against PDC but also those in favour of it.

If there were bins on the system, there'd be less litter, so less cleaners would be required.

I disagree - the average passenger is now so accustomed to dumping their rubbish in the trains that the idea of taking it with them has left their psyche.

Whilst I do see your point Bill, believe me that from where I observe this issue I see little evidence of rubbish etc. being disposed of 'responsibly'.

What I do see I'm afraid are cars full of papers, take away boxes/bags, coffe cups, sandwich wrappers et al.

One speaks as one finds...........

Exactly. If you don't provide bins on stations what should people do?

Counting up my local NR station back home, Doncaster has 3 Costas, 2 Pumpkin shops, 3 newsagents, and 0 bins. All generate rubbish, people with sandwiches and drinks, where do they put it?

I would gladly put litter in the bins if they were provided. However I have on several occasions been encouraged by NR staff to litter their station - "If the bosses see what a state it gets maybe we can get some bins".

I also question which bright spark things that removing a plastic receptacle will make any difference to a terrorist. If you remove the bin, they will simply place their 'device' elsewhere.

At least it's one less place they can put it!

I agree with Dave. With the amount of free papers that are handed out at stations, not having cleaners would be a disaster. Post-rush hour is dreadful, there are Metros etc. everywhere!!

Likewise, the only way I can get them for my break is to beat the cleaners to those left in the cars.

The loop type bins with a clear plasic bag under are in place at all the east end District Line stations and work well. With the exception of Upton Park e/b where it is not emptied often enough where it gets full drops out of the loop and then a pile as big again surrounds it !!! (but thats a cleaner / ststion issue).

Despite the proliferation of Metro / Lite / London Paper all weekday only, trains left in the most disgusting state are always those out on Saturday and Sundays. I am horrified frankly ! The litter pickers still work those days, in fact sometimes they demand to know if the train was cleaned by their counterparts at the opposite end of the line!!! One finds the irregular and casual weekend travellers are far less civilised than the weekday commuters !

So to get back to the thread

Is the S stock gonna have PDC? and is it gonna be PDC open and PDC close?

Though I see Bowchurch's points (and some of them are interesting!) I can't help but think that that could confuse passengers even more!

The regular users would of course pretty quickly adapt to where the doors will and won't open, and when they need to 'intervene' themselves, but for non-routine pax I'm not so sure! I'm thinking in particular of the District and the vast number of tourists we carry. Even if the CIS was to announce that doors will open or will need to be requested at the next station (or something like that) we then get into the language variations!

From a train equipment point of view I have to say it's something else to go wrong and failure to operate correctly would possibly mean the train having to be withdrawn from service - which is something that is unpopular with both staff, management and passengers.

Personally I think it either need to be an all or nothing situation and LU have decided (at least until they change their corporate minds that pax open is not the way to go.