towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 9, 2009 18:21:29 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 9, 2009 18:21:29 GMT
Have seen a draft for WTT11 hoped to start 1st February 2010.57 train peak service with all 6 extra trains coming out of SMD.Stepping back at Stratford in the peaks and PM service from SMD (11 trains) all entering service via Stratford rather than West Ham.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 11, 2009 10:55:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 10:55:53 GMT
Will Seltrac be running before WTT11?
How many trains will be reversing at Stratford in the peaks?
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 13, 2009 18:07:10 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 13, 2009 18:07:10 GMT
You probably won't see Seltrac till WTT12 or even WTT13!!!As for WTT 11 I think there will be more early afternoon reversers at Stratford as the PM service all goes in EB,but there'll still be North Grenwich reversers in the peaks.
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WTT 11
Oct 13, 2009 22:23:11 GMT
Post by ruislip on Oct 13, 2009 22:23:11 GMT
Are any allowances being made for the weekend construction that seems to plague the line every weekend as of late?
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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WTT 11
Oct 13, 2009 22:46:54 GMT
Post by mrfs42 on Oct 13, 2009 22:46:54 GMT
but there'll still be North Grenwich reversers in the peaks. Oo. ;D Splendid. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 13, 2009 22:58:18 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 13, 2009 22:58:18 GMT
Have only look ahead up to middle of January,until Christmas at the moment all closures are either Waterloo-Stanmore or West Hamstead-Stanmore.From COT Xmas Eve till SOT 29th December whole line closed for test train running,2nd/3rd January closed Waterloo-Stanmore,9th/10th January whole line shut for trial ops.Won't know what happens after that till the end of next week when the next 6 monthly look ahead is due,that'll take us into the middle of February.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 14, 2009 3:22:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2009 3:22:14 GMT
You probably won't see Seltrac till WTT12 or even WTT13!!!As for WTT 11 I think there will be more early afternoon reversers at Stratford as the PM service all goes in EB,but there'll still be North Grenwich reversers in the peaks. So still 24tph in the peak flow direction then? |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 14, 2009 18:33:02 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 14, 2009 18:33:02 GMT
Apparently it's 27tph both directions in the peak on this WTT.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 15, 2009 12:34:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 12:34:18 GMT
Apparently it's 27tph both directions in the peak on this WTT. Interesting. So has anything been done to alleviate the signalling bottlenecks that occur during 24tph operation such as at Finchley Rd NB? |
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 15, 2009 15:13:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 15:13:10 GMT
Apparently it's 27tph both directions in the peak on this WTT. Interesting. So has anything been done to alleviate the signalling bottlenecks that occur during 24tph operation such as at Finchley Rd NB? Is there a bottleneck at finchley Road on the North? From what I remember the main bottlenecks on the Jubilee were at Willesden Green and Wembley Park caused by detrainments. |
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WTT 11
Oct 15, 2009 20:58:44 GMT
Post by superteacher on Oct 15, 2009 20:58:44 GMT
Does this timetable make use of the 3rd platform at Stanmore?
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 15, 2009 22:10:04 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 15, 2009 22:10:04 GMT
That's not due to be commissioned till the whole line goes TBTC,supposed to be 2010(allegedly)
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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WTT 11
Oct 15, 2009 23:24:29 GMT
Post by mrfs42 on Oct 15, 2009 23:24:29 GMT
That's not due to be commissioned till the whole line goes TBTC,supposed to be 2010(allegedly) Gosh - that's a [not really/but sort of] surprise. IIRC I've done a few sketches that had NOG reversing, and the third platform and 27tph tidal flow.. Stable enough to keep the Met. types happy at least. Meal breaks at an average of 4h 07.  |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 16, 2009 0:36:34 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 16, 2009 0:36:34 GMT
They've actually swapped the balance of PM stablers round,on WTT 10 Neasden gets the majority and SMD only gets 6,on WTT 11 Neasden get 6 and SMD 12.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 16, 2009 22:55:07 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2009 22:55:07 GMT
Interesting. So has anything been done to alleviate the signalling bottlenecks that occur during 24tph operation such as at Finchley Rd NB? Is there a bottleneck at finchley Road on the North? From what I remember the main bottlenecks on the Jubilee were at Willesden Green and Wembley Park caused by detrainments. When I used the Jubilee during the peaks, it was common for trains to have to wait at Finchley Rd's NB home signal. On observation it usually took approx 125 secs for the starter at Finchley Rd to clear after the previous train had departed (I don't think it clears until the train ahead has departed West Hampstead). As 27tph = 135secs, this doesn't leave much time for door closing and operating margin. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 21, 2009 1:06:37 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 21, 2009 1:06:37 GMT
I've started my TBTC training tonight,from what I'm hearing WTT11 will be protected manual Westminster-North Greenwich,WTT12 will be the whole line in protected manual,then maybe full ATO with WTT13.This will be getting dangerously close to The Olympics.
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WTT 11
Oct 21, 2009 19:52:02 GMT
Post by superteacher on Oct 21, 2009 19:52:02 GMT
I've started my TBTC training tonight,from what I'm hearing WTT11 will be protected manual Westminster-North Greenwich,WTT12 will be the whole line in protected manual,then maybe full ATO with WTT13.This will be getting dangerously close to The Olympics. Not necessarily, WTT 11 may only last 6 months or so, then possibly similar for WTT 12. But you never know . . . ;D |
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 21, 2009 21:12:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 21:12:05 GMT
Can I ask some more general questions around the topic. This as someone who lives on the Jubilee and has been messed around completely at weekends for, what, two years now.
The latest target is to finish all the works by December 31 2009. Do I understand that things will now just be left dragging on way into the future, just keeping quiet about the fact that Tube Lines have not finished and that none of the benefits have been delivered ?
Is the real problem that Tube Lines actually do not know how to do it ?
We are told the major benefit of the new ATO signalling is that train service will increase from 24 to 32 trains per hour. As no new trains have been ordered, how can any increase be provided ? I am aware that automatic driving should provide something due to increased speed, but this must be marginal.
Much is made of the additional capacity, which presumably will only be provided at rush hours. Will there be no benefits off-peak or at weekends ?
Looking forward to such projects for the future, are they now no longer worth doing ? I use the Jubilee when I can on Saturdays and Sundays, but not in the week. Its absence means it takes me, each weekend, an extra 30-60 minutes to get where I am going. Any benefits once completed will just be a minute or two off my journey time. I really would rather they had left a railway with modern signalling (let us not forget the Jubilee is the newest line in London) as it was, not have poured huge amounts of money down the drain, and not have grossly disrupted much of East and South-East London for so long.
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WTT 11
Oct 21, 2009 21:25:43 GMT
Post by superteacher on Oct 21, 2009 21:25:43 GMT
The current timetable means that quite a few trains are unused in the peak hours, so these will be utilised when the upgrade is finished.
ATO will mean a 10 - 15% reduction in journey times, so if ATO was running now, you could provide the same level of service with 5 less trains.
The two points mentioned above is effectively like having 10 more trains at your disposable, which would certainly enable a significent increase in the number of trains per hour.
Also, the service will become more reliable under ATO, as all trains will have the same driving characteristics, thus reducing bunching behind "slow drivers." Some of the Jubilee drivers are like snails at the moment, it has to be said!
I daresay that off peak services will also be improved, as they were when the Central went ATO.
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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WTT 11
Oct 22, 2009 1:40:24 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 22, 2009 1:40:24 GMT
Eventually it will be 30tph in the peaks 24tph off peak & weekends,24tph is the current peak service,sounds like an improvement to me.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 15:02:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 15:02:52 GMT
The current timetable means that quite a few trains are unused in the peak hours, so these will be utilised when the upgrade is finished. Does this mean that the four additional complete trains delivered in 2006 have spent the last four years effectively sat unused ? |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 15:16:54 GMT
Post by North End on Oct 23, 2009 15:16:54 GMT
The current timetable means that quite a few trains are unused in the peak hours, so these will be utilised when the upgrade is finished. Does this mean that the four additional complete trains delivered in 2006 have spent the last four years effectively sat unused ? They have been used to assist the release of other trains for TBTC modification (Stratford) and testing (Highgate). |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,886
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 18:24:27 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 23, 2009 18:24:27 GMT
At the moment due to the wheel wear problem Alstom are struggling to supply the current service,but wheels are starting to arrive so it may be sorted before the service increase is required.
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 18:36:27 GMT
Post by londonstuff on Oct 23, 2009 18:36:27 GMT
Diana, are you a journalist? |
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 20:45:02 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 20:45:02 GMT
not have poured huge amounts of money down the drain, Who mentioned the Drain? I thought this was about the Jubilee  |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,886
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WTT 11
Oct 23, 2009 21:28:40 GMT
Post by towerman on Oct 23, 2009 21:28:40 GMT
According to the 6 month look ahead WTT 11 is due to start on 31st January.
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 26, 2009 6:47:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 6:47:17 GMT
Eventually it will be 30tph in the peaks 24tph off peak & weekends,24tph is the current peak service,sounds like an improvement to me. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that 24tph is overkill during the off-peak? |
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 26, 2009 11:18:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 11:18:57 GMT
Diana, are you a journalist? Oh dear. Is my spelling and grammar really that bad ?  |
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Deleted
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WTT 11
Oct 26, 2009 15:49:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 15:49:26 GMT
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that 24tph is overkill during the off-peak? Just you |
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WTT 11
Oct 26, 2009 20:52:06 GMT
Post by superteacher on Oct 26, 2009 20:52:06 GMT
I know that 24tph certainly is not overkill on the Central!!! The Jubilee would benefit from it too!
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