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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2007 22:21:05 GMT
Anyone have more information on what the late finishing/emergency engineering works, meaning an all day suspension between Turnham Green and Richmond, were about today? Cheers, Dave  |
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Post by c5 on Nov 27, 2007 4:51:17 GMT
They couldn't get the new? set of points working at Turnham Green, so they were secured up for the Ealing Broadway road.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2007 8:53:57 GMT
the points 37's were chairlocks but in metronets wisdom they decided to change them to a BR style called M63's its the same with the ones from richmond 10's they were direct drive (motor and a PL&D box) but also they changed them to M63's the ones in trouble was 37's dont know what the trouble was but they couldnt get them set up properly btw these M63's are the same design as the ones giving grief at watford south junction
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Post by soupdragon on Nov 27, 2007 23:08:52 GMT
Does anyone know if London Overground services were still operating between Richmond & Gunnersbury on Monday?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 27, 2007 23:34:59 GMT
dont know what the trouble was but they couldnt get them set up properly btw these M63's are the same design as the ones giving grief at watford south junction Grey or Red push rods...? |
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Post by c5 on Nov 28, 2007 1:27:54 GMT
Back up and running from start of traffic on Tuesday.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 28, 2007 3:23:01 GMT
the points 37's were chairlocks but in metronets wisdom they decided to change them to a BR style called M63's its the same with the ones from richmond 10's they were direct drive (motor and a PL&D box) but also they changed them to M63's the ones in trouble was 37's dont know what the trouble was but they couldnt get them set up properly btw these M63's are the same design as the ones giving grief at watford south junction What a shame, chairlocks were damn fine points but they'll all have to go of course because they are no flat bottom chairlocks! I wonder when 11's at Ealing Common will be replaced? |
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Post by dazz285 on Nov 28, 2007 9:20:43 GMT
Does anyone know if London Overground services were still operating between Richmond & Gunnersbury on Monday? Yes, we did ;-( Dazz285 |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2007 12:02:35 GMT
What a shame, chairlocks were damn fine points but they'll all have to go of course because they are no flat bottom chairlocks! I wonder when 11's at Ealing Common will be replaced? Yes there are. They're called VCCs, are still used by SNCF (who we derived the Chairlock design from) and are now being used in the UK on the CTRL. |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 28, 2007 13:28:35 GMT
What a shame, chairlocks were damn fine points but they'll all have to go of course because they are no flat bottom chairlocks! I wonder when 11's at Ealing Common will be replaced? Yes there are. They're called VCCs, are still used by SNCF (who we derived the Chairlock design from) and are now being used in the UK on the CTRL. I wonder how close LUs chairlocks are to the French originals. Apparently (I was often told) it was Mr.Dell, Chief Signal Engineer, when on holiday in France in the late 1950s, saw them and bought a set for LT to evaluate. Of course LT/LU modified them over the years, the last mod I recall was the refacing of the lockslide with a surface plate after machining, presumably because units have not been made for years. Then there are the yellow sets only for use in depots presumably because the castings are not up to the wear and tear of full speed traffic. I assume Metronet is replacing them as and when, are M63s to be the standard replacement? I know Tube Lines have been looking at Shurelocks but I note that M63s were installed at Heathrow T123 for the extension to T5 although I don't know what points are installed at T5. AFAIR LTs Clamplocks were the original design for F/B rail and well remember the hordes of signal staff being trained on them in the old Earl's Court signal school in the early 1980s. I never was keen on Clamplocks but the only ones I worked on were 8's at Hatton Cross, 9's at Hanger Lane Jcn, 10s at Heathrow and 75's at Acton Town. I suppose that M63s are cheaper than a F/B 4' layout and require less space so I expect they may become the norm in future. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2007 19:36:56 GMT
the yellow lid chairlocks had a web welded into the lock arm for added strength and started running on the mainline roughly in 2000/2001 we also have blue lid ones now which have furrous bronze (no idea how to spell it) bearings and use a oil which is like water (thinner then clock oil) those push rods are the gray ones tom we have been told on the course if it is the red type as used on the central line then we must take them out of service by clipping and scotching
apprently the reason why we are getting the M63's is that they are a interim before they get approval for installing surelocks on the main line
clamplocks are very good but not when they are driven my a air motor which just bangs them over even when slugged or damped they are not very good as were NR use hydrolic motors they seem to have no trouble with them what so ever
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2007 21:19:20 GMT
those push rods are the gray ones tom we have been told on the course if it is the red type as used on the central line then we must take them out of service by clipping and scotching I think that instruction may be under review - it's something that is being debated quite a lot both in Metronet and LU - especially after the failure on 24's at Arnos Grove last week. |
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2007 21:21:10 GMT
I assume Metronet is replacing them as and when, are M63s to be the standard replacement? I know Tube Lines have been looking at Shurelocks but I note that M63s were installed at Heathrow T123 for the extension to T5 although I don't know what points are installed at T5. I believe M63s were used at T5 - though I'm not 100% sure. The only layouts with a Safety Case for new work these days are M63s and 4 foots. A pity, because I too liked Chairlocks. Clamplocks were the works of the devil himself however! |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Nov 28, 2007 21:26:38 GMT
furrous bronze May I suggest Ferrous-Bronze? As in Iron-Bronze alloy presumably, or is it an amalgam? Very interesting, thanks! My grandfather who was an Underground Foreman Ganger and member of the Institute of Railway Engineers would have understood all of this! |
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Post by Tom on Nov 28, 2007 22:04:00 GMT
Phosphor Bronze, I think.
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Post by Oracle on Nov 29, 2007 7:46:38 GMT
Phosphor-Bronze makes sense as it is a bearing material, used in automotive applications inthe past. I believe that it soaks up oil?
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 29, 2007 9:14:30 GMT
the yellow lid chairlocks had a web welded into the lock arm for added strength and started running on the mainline roughly in 2000/2001 we also have blue lid ones now which have furrous bronze (no idea how to spell it) bearings and use a oil which is like water (thinner then clock oil) those push rods are the gray ones tom we have been told on the course if it is the red type as used on the central line then we must take them out of service by clipping and scotching apprently the reason why we are getting the M63's is that they are a interim before they get approval for installing surelocks on the main line clamplocks are very good but not when they are driven my a air motor which just bangs them over even when slugged or damped they are not very good as were NR use hydrolic motors they seem to have no trouble with them what so ever 2001 would've been my last year on the track doing point maintenance. My memory is that all chairlock unit lockarms had a web welded into them to support the right angle against torsion, this indeed was a modification from the original pattern and AFAIK existed before I saw yellow units. In fact the welded web seemed to be a rather ad hoc affair and more than once I had to nip round to the emergency stores and collect another because the new one that had been delivered had a web that was too thick preventing the lock from going fully home. I never got the chance to work on M63s but I saw them in the Acton school along with HW1000s when I spent a few weeks there in the late 1990s. Clamplocks I never did like, those tappets were a PITA! More than once I held traffic up changing a unit on Acton 75s. To my mind chairlocks were nice to work on and were generally good kit although they did have a problem with cam distortion when the units were not properly supported and subject to extreme forces. Of course you can't beat 4' points for simplicity and robust components. I never did get to work on the F/B version, in fact the nearest ones I was aware of to my patch were the sets the JLE put down at Green Park. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2007 11:02:05 GMT
Phosphor-Bronze yep thats how to spell it
the only trouble with the chairlocks at the moment is when the shops (REW) refurb them the concentric pin for the cam follower is being put in the wrong position so when it comes round to change the unit you cannot always get the indications to make and new T/O's cannot make sense of this we changed one at earls court and it took 3 attempts to get a unit which actually worked when just put straight in . also the problem with the centre bearing in the contact controller unit keeps sticking again this happened when i first passed out in 1998 but this was because they changed the material of the bush but looks like they have gone back to this design again this was a problem on 8's at earls court for a few days in the summer. the only thing with chairlocks i think i dont like is that the tollerances are alot more fine on them especailly the 123 measurment
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 29, 2007 12:36:09 GMT
Phosphor-Bronze yep thats how to spell it the only trouble with the chairlocks at the moment is when the shops (REW) refurb them the concentric pin for the cam follower is being put in the wrong position so when it comes round to change the unit you cannot always get the indications to make and new T/O's cannot make sense of this we changed one at earls court and it took 3 attempts to get a unit which actually worked when just put straight in . also the problem with the centre bearing in the contact controller unit keeps sticking again this happened when i first passed out in 1998 but this was because they changed the material of the bush but looks like they have gone back to this design again this was a problem on 8's at earls court for a few days in the summer. the only thing with chairlocks i think i dont like is that the tollerances are alot more fine on them especailly the 123 measurment I think you mean eccentric pin! It can be correctly positioned but not by a TO alone. It's another one of those jobs that could be done by a TO with a SOM at his side, or two SOMs working together. As for the bearing in the CB I remember we had loads of failures on those, they used to expand and seize up. Sometimes on the Picc we would strip down the units on site and rebuild them using some original parts and some parts from the new unit. We had no choice where we found the units had been concreted in and we didn't have any gunning out gear with us! Yes the tolerances are tight, the 1,2,3 is important and so is keeping the indication rods from being bent. But I think chairlocks properly laid and maintained remain in gauge better than 4 foots. I don't think I ever found a set of 4 foots that didn't need adjustment. |
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