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Post by pakenhamtrain on May 30, 2009 3:43:40 GMT
Is there any particular reason why LU trains use whistles instead of a horn?
Was it a noise issue?
Or was it a keeper from the steam days or somthing else?
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Post by happybunny on May 30, 2009 6:37:27 GMT
I have often asked the same question... to fit an old fashioned steam train type whistle to new trains is something I have never understood !
Apparently the S Stock is going to have both LUL whistle and two tone NR horn, so I am told.
Similarly, the new LO trains will feature both as well (not sure why as they won't run over any LU owned tracks- unless you count the ex ELL bit)
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Post by suncloud on May 30, 2009 7:30:35 GMT
I'm fairly sure I heard a Chiltern service bound for Birmingham use a whistle (as well as its horn) when it passed through Amersham the other week...
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Post by astock5000 on May 30, 2009 10:25:44 GMT
I'm fairly sure I heard a Chiltern service bound for Birmingham use a whistle (as well as its horn) when it passed through Amersham the other week... Chiltern trains through Amersham can only go as far as Aylesbury. To get to Birmingham, they have to go via High Wycombe. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2009 10:53:56 GMT
I have a theory and it is, in signal cabins we can operate a whistle and historically set of loud and short toots meant something, i guess trains had whistles fitted too in order to be able give of a messgae rather than than having the generic tone of a horn.
Re Chilterns and Birmingham, during the Gerrads Cross tunnel collapse we had a lot of ex/Birmingham serives being run on our line, we were actually supplied with a fax of the timing of these trains. My guess would be they ran via Princes and Monks Risborough
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Post by Tubeboy on May 30, 2009 14:48:16 GMT
They did indeed reverse at Aylesbury and Princes Risborough. I cant remember if the branch shuttle was replaced by buses to allow the through services to operate without hindrance. I think the speed limit of that stretch is 40mph.
Re the 378s running on LU, ok it might be NR owned, but they will run on the ends of the Bakerloo and District.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:05 GMT
I know why cows have horns, it's in case their bells don't work!!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:47 GMT
FWIW, the DB (deutsche Bundesbahn) uses whistles.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 5, 2009 11:54:34 GMT
Is it because there is a ready supply of compressed air? If all stocks started off with whistles then there would be some form of historical/continuity reason.
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Post by suncloud on Aug 7, 2009 8:42:40 GMT
I'm fairly sure I heard a Chiltern service bound for Birmingham use a whistle (as well as its horn) when it passed through Amersham the other week... Chiltern trains through Amersham can only go as far as Aylesbury. To get to Birmingham, they have to go via High Wycombe. Sorry to late-reply... But on that occasion there was an engineering train blocking the Chiltern mainline northbound only around Gerrards Cross I believe. I'd assume as per the tunnel collapse they were bouncing these trains of Aylesbury and Princes Risborough to maintain some sort of service and try and get the right balance of trains in the right areas as a nearly full southbound service was still operating. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 7, 2009 12:37:33 GMT
I have a theory and it is, in signal cabins we can operate a whistle and historically set of loud and short toots meant something, i guess trains had whistles fitted too in order to be able give of a messgae rather than than having the generic tone of a horn. Re Chilterns and Birmingham, during the Gerrads Cross tunnel collapse we had a lot of ex/Birmingham serives being run on our line, we were actually supplied with a fax of the timing of these trains. My guess would be they ran via Princes and Monks Risborough Traditionally the signal cabin whistle was to call/alert the local signal lineman. Of course the local lineman is but a distant memory these days with most AET depots across the network closed and all signal staff centralised to just a few depots. Under noise abatement whistles in some areas were not to be sounded due to complaints from residents and were subject to noise polution orders just as the PA is on sites such as Baker Street, Queensbury and elsewhere. Thus in many areas the 'cabin' whistle has not be sounded for many a year and some won't. The whistle circuit was a convenient one to borrow a fuse from in an emergency and some simply didn't get replaced as the fuses (alarm type) in many are no longer stocked in stores, being one of the many items of Strowger telephone equipment declared obsolete two decades ago! |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 7, 2009 12:54:41 GMT
I heard the Earl's Court whistle last week.
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Post by maxtube on Aug 7, 2009 18:34:49 GMT
Chiltern Class 165s I think have whistles, one sounded going through West Hampstead the other day. The RhB in Switzerland has some very shrill whistles, but they sound lovely echoing through the mountains...
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Post by 100andthirty on Aug 7, 2009 19:16:39 GMT
Horns were tried on the 1986 tube stock prototypes. I still remember sounding the horn as we passed empty through Green Park. A customer standing on the platform nearly jumped out of his skin. The sound of the whistle is more mellow than horns and is more suitable for out low speeds. If one day air eliminated from the trains no doubt this decision will be revisited.
On the main line the Standard for horns has been enhanced over the years and when the old slam door stock was replaced by Electrostars and the like, the number of noise complaints rose dramatically. Also they identified that there was a risk to hearing damage if a horn was sounded close to a person in, say, a depot. In consequence, a thing called a depot whistle has been introduced on some or all of them.
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Post by citysig on Aug 7, 2009 23:21:57 GMT
If I recall correctly, Tampers and such like have horns.
Look-outs also carry horns which definately give out a "horn" sound not a whistle.
On NR, the majority of locos / trains have horns, but shunting locos (such as the Class 08 and it's predecessors) have / had whistles.
I think the original question should be, why do some other companies use horns, when railways grew up with whistles. Why did "they" change from the "standard" we still use.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 7, 2009 23:49:18 GMT
Engines that were vacuum braked were easier to provide with horns; engines that had air brakes were easier to provide with air whistles?
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 8, 2009 4:51:50 GMT
If I recall correctly, Tampers and such like have horns. Look-outs also carry horns which definately give out a "horn" sound not a whistle. On NR, the majority of locos / trains have horns, but shunting locos (such as the Class 08 and it's predecessors) have / had whistles. I think the original question should be, why do some other companies use horns, when railways grew up with whistles. Why did "they" change from the "standard" we still use. Unless the rules have changed lookouts are still required to carry both horn and whistle but the horn is the superior device and easiest to get an audible emission from in the worst of conditions. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 8, 2009 9:43:24 GMT
Unless going down the "2 volume" mode, a whistle is more suitable when there are both closed and open sections. A (GWR steam) whistle for example is clearly audible over a mile away yet is not deafening when stood close. OTOH a horn loud enough to be used on open sections would be unusable in tunnel sections, especially approaching tube platforms when there is a risk of a 'fall'. It's all to do with pitch and its associated air-penetration.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 8, 2009 10:31:55 GMT
Engines that were vacuum braked were easier to provide with horns; engines that had air brakes were easier to provide with air whistles? Doh, has anyone invented a vacuum operated horn yet?? |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 8, 2009 15:44:29 GMT
Doh, has anyone invented a vacuum operated horn yet?? Yes, see this patent from 1930. This site says that the AWS warning horn in BR DMUs is produced by a vacuum operated horn. |
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Post by max on Aug 8, 2009 16:14:06 GMT
And trams traditionally have bells...
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Post by citysig on Aug 8, 2009 19:59:24 GMT
Unless going down the "2 volume" mode, a whistle is more suitable when there are both closed and open sections. A (GWR steam) whistle for example is clearly audible over a mile away yet is not deafening when stood close. OTOH a horn loud enough to be used on open sections would be unusable in tunnel sections, especially approaching tube platforms when there is a risk of a 'fall'. It's all to do with pitch and its associated air-penetration. I can see what you mean, and this would be a very good reason why we have whistles. But... do you really think all this logic was really applied, or did we merely remain with whistles more by luck than judgment ;D |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 8, 2009 20:09:10 GMT
The Southern Region used whistles on EMUs too
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 8, 2009 20:34:22 GMT
But... do you really think all this logic was really applied, or did we merely remain with whistles more by luck than judgment ;D A bit of both?? They probably stuck with the whistle anyway on the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' theory IMO, so more by luck than judgment as you say; but the science would have shut up the 'progressives' (were there any?) who might have suggested horns as the best thing since sliced bread. |
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Post by singaporesam on Aug 9, 2009 11:09:55 GMT
In Singapore the passenger trains have horns , however some of the Battery Locos have a horn and a whistle. I believe that this is to allow the whistle to be used when working closer to staff on the track.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2009 12:37:32 GMT
Trams have horns, at least where there is on street running - I remember a near miss in Sheffield when a car entered Infirmary Road from a car park with a tram approaching - heavy braking and a loud horn. The location was quite close to the Infirmary Road stop.
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Post by pakenhamtrain on Aug 19, 2009 10:56:14 GMT
Our modern trams(C1,2,D1,2 classes) have both the gong and a horn. The gong is as you expect used more often than the horn.
The older ones(B1,2,A1,2 and I think Z1,2,3) Have the gong and external PA.
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