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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 10, 2009 23:46:06 GMT
This was meant to be a Reply to an existing thread, which for some reason doesn't give me a 'Reply' button. It contained mackenzieblu and Alex Gollner's alternative line diagrams for LO. I was simply going to write that I had tried the same exercise in Nov 2007, and I admit the other guys have it pretty much nailed. For better or worse, I think my effort looked *too* TfL-like  ! (Mind you, it was my aim to stay within the corporate style as much as possible - well, that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!)  farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3186351002_7a2a408908_b.jpg |
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Post by ruislip on Jan 11, 2009 3:57:18 GMT
This is the first diagram I have seen in a long time where there are interchange stations with the lines at the top.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 11:35:34 GMT
I like it! Interesting idea with having the Victoria Line on the map. Did you mean to have the three stations lined up when you started?
Also another factor is you can add the ELR with little trouble as well!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 13:13:38 GMT
What program did you use.
I do like it. If via Primrose Hill ever re opened it would easily fit on there. By the way, when looking at that I see Camden Road station is missing!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 11, 2009 14:01:09 GMT
Good effort!
Although it does give the slight impression that services could be run from Richmond to Clapham Junction and from Watford Junction to Barking / Stratford?
(I do realise they did run Watford to Stratford during the recent blockade)
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Post by Chris M on Jan 11, 2009 14:06:07 GMT
Services could be run from Watford to Barking, although they'd be unable to serve Gospel Oak station without additional platforms being built.
It is not impossible to run a Richmond - Clapham Junction service, although given the need to reverse in Willesden Jn station it would be unlikely to be advertised as such.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 14:16:48 GMT
Wouldn't it be better to have the Clapham branch to the left rather than the right? At the moment through LO trains run between Clapham and Stratford, not Watford and certainly not Richmond. Plus this would even things up with 3 branches on each side.
Also, Camden Road is missing. But all in all it's a good piece of work. Far better than what's in use.
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Post by cetacean on Jan 11, 2009 14:22:35 GMT
The Watford-Stratford service didn't run via Hampstead Heath though.
They already run a peak Clapham Junction - Willseden - Stratford service and they'll be running them half-hourly a year or two from now, so Clapham really needs to be shown as west of Willesden.
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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 11, 2009 18:42:03 GMT
I admit there are many ways in which this could be improved. Paul - yes, I agree that the Willesden-Clapham should really point the other way. It could do with being on the same latitude as Kensal Green-Euston aswell.
The idea was to reduce the amount of latitudinal realism as much as practicable to make a map that would stand a high chance of fitting in the strip above the doors.
Re: the Victoria Line join-up, well it's not really my idea at all - if you look back at old line diagrams, you'll find that the interchange 'arrows' (as they became most recently) were really just 'abbreviated line sections' - i.e. the idea was to show part of an intersecting line - usually these would be truncated either side of the station by using an arrow to mean 'continues in this direction'. However back then if the interconnecting line had more than one station shown on a map, they would be joined up. Arrows would only appear where it was not practicable to continue showing that interconnecting line. This logic is something that became forgotten from the 1940s onwards, and all I've done is rekindled that and gone back to the original idea, but with modern implementation.
And I have noticed that errors in it (there is one other ommission that hasn't been spotted yet - I'll leave you to look for it).
As I say, I did this in Nov 2007 and haven't touched it since - maybe when I have a spare moment in the next week or two I'll try and make some effort to touch it up and show not yet open routes aswell.
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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 11, 2009 18:46:03 GMT
What program did you use. I do like it. If via Primrose Hill ever re opened it would easily fit on there. By the way, when looking at that I see Camden Road station is missing! (1) Powerpoint. (2) Ooops!  |
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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 11, 2009 20:27:55 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Jan 11, 2009 21:56:41 GMT
My first thought about this version is that I don't like the way the limited service connection between the Clapham branch and the Richmond-Stratford route joins the latter at the point the Watford-Euston line crosses. I'd move the connection towards Acton slightly, so there is a clear gap. This might mean the lower blob of the Willesden interchange needs to move to vertically below the central blob to make room.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 11, 2009 22:51:58 GMT
I haven't yet worked out how I would fit the ELL into this! Do another map for the ELL (as different trains will be used - class 378/1 instead of 378/0), maybe showing each service service seperately when using the same bit of line, like DLR maps do. |
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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 12, 2009 9:51:37 GMT
Yes, Willesden Junction is and probably always will be a compromise. It's the bit I'm least happy about. To move the Clapham - Kensal Rise 'restricted service' join to the left would mean the upper WJ 'blob' has to have a longer joining arm to the central one, than the lower one does.
The other option of course is not to distinguish the restricted service and make it look like a normal route option, as others have done. Or not to advertise it at all and have the Claphams showing as terminating there. After all, if it's good enough for all Beckton DLR trains to 'terminate' at Canning Town when there is a 'restricted' service (and not that restricted) to Bank, and NOT be shown on maps at all (even as a dotted line), then this would probably be the best thing to do.
BTW Previously I only saw mackenzieblu's 'remix' - I didn't see the photos of the forthcoming official map. I'd never seen that before!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2009 12:45:13 GMT
I haven't yet worked out how I would fit the ELL into this! Do another map for the ELL (as different trains will be used - class 378/1 instead of 378/0), maybe showing each service service seperately when using the same bit of line, like DLR maps do. I agree with the idea of having a seperate map for the ELL, as they'll use different trains.  Secondly, though I hate to point out mistakes, theres no Northern Line Interchange at Euston...  |
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Post by amershamsi on Jan 23, 2009 16:25:57 GMT
My first thought about this version is that I don't like the way the limited service connection between the Clapham branch and the Richmond-Stratford route joins the latter at the point the Watford-Euston line crosses. I'd move the connection towards Acton slightly, so there is a clear gap. This might mean the lower blob of the Willesden interchange needs to move to vertically below the central blob to make room. Or you could just put the DC lines underneath the NLL/WLL, which also works. |
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Post by thirstquensher on Jan 25, 2009 0:14:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 0:30:25 GMT
One Id say don't put is the Bakerloo interchange at Harrow. You just need to keep one at Willseden and Queen's Park. (Note what you did with Richmond is the same thing).
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Post by metman on Jan 25, 2009 1:13:49 GMT
I'd remove the NR sign from Wembley Central and Bushey. Due to the recent arguements it's best left out!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 25, 2009 11:30:52 GMT
An indication of the limited service from the WLL towards Stratford could be provided simply by extending the cranked section of the WLL to meet the Acton-Willesden section of the NLL.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 25, 2009 13:16:36 GMT
I'd remove the NR sign from Wembley Central and Bushey. I agree. Also, if Olympia has a NR symbol (for Southern services), why not West Brompton and Shepherd's Bush? |
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Post by happybunny on Jan 25, 2009 16:42:44 GMT
I'd remove the NR sign from Wembley Central and Bushey. I agree. Also, if Olympia has a NR symbol (for Southern services), why not West Brompton and Shepherd's Bush? Well i know not all Southern stop at Shepherds Bush (peak times only I believe) , not sure about West Brompton, do all Southern's stop there ?? X Country only stop at Olympia (not W.Brompton or S.Bush) - although of course this has been replaced by a bus service, for the foreseeable future ! |
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Post by Colin on Jan 25, 2009 16:48:54 GMT
The map in reply #16 above would appear to imply that Blackhorse Road, Highbury & Islington and Euston are all the same interchange!
The Victoria line must be separate at each of these interchanges!!
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Post by Chris M on Jan 25, 2009 17:07:49 GMT
The map in reply #16 above would appear to imply that Blackhorse Road, Highbury & Islington and Euston are all the same interchange! The Victoria line must be separate at each of these interchanges!! I actually don't see it as that at all - it's clear to me that the interchange is via the Victoria Line. Would showing intermediate stops on the Vic help for you? |
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 25, 2009 17:19:54 GMT
Well i know not all Southern stop at Shepherds Bush (peak times only I believe) , not sure about West Brompton, do all Southern's stop there ?? I've looked at a timetable on Southern's website, and it says all Southern trains stop at West Brompton. |
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Post by suncloud on Jan 25, 2009 17:21:50 GMT
I agree. Also, if Olympia has a NR symbol (for Southern services), why not West Brompton and Shepherd's Bush? Well i know not all Southern stop at Shepherds Bush (peak times only I believe) , not sure about West Brompton, do all Southern's stop there ?? X Country only stop at Olympia (not W.Brompton or S.Bush) - although of course this has been replaced by a bus service, for the foreseeable future ! All Southern's through services now stop at Shepherd's Bush, Olympia and West Brompton... Cross Country won't stop at Olympia for the forseeable future either... (except for one bus a week)... |
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Post by Colin on Jan 25, 2009 17:27:34 GMT
I actually don't see it as that at all - it's clear to me that the interchange is via the Victoria Line. Would showing intermediate stops on the Vic help for you? No, definitely not! It's meant to be a map showing LO services - to give such prominence to one LU line over the others, is a bad move...............in fact looking at the map again, why not give as much prominence to the Bakerloo & District lines? IMO, all of the interchanges should be shown in the same way. |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 25, 2009 18:32:51 GMT
Certainly the Bakerloo doesn't offer an alternative journey between two non-connected Overground stations.
The district does offer direct services between Barking and West Brompton/Richmond (although not between Richmond and West Brompton), but to include this you have then basically got the frame of the entire standard map.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 20:01:47 GMT
I agree with Colin that the three Victoria interchanges should be separate - the fact that they line up vertically will still be a neat touch.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 25, 2009 22:16:41 GMT
I also agree that the interchanges with the Victoria line should be shown separately, instead of showing the Victoria on the map, as it is a London Overground map. The DLR map doesn't show the Jubilee between Canary Wharf and Stratford.
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! (Mind you, it was my aim to stay within the corporate style as much as possible - well, that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!)
