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Post by georgeinwimbledon on Dec 28, 2008 16:10:24 GMT
Greetings, all! I have been lurking in this fascinating forum for ages and have at last been prompted to ask a question! I was travelling from Sloane Square to Wimbledon on Saturday, 20 December. When we arrived at South Kensington, the driver announced that we would be calling at platform 2 at Gloucester Road not the usual platform and sure enough we did. This was obviously rather exciting, but I couldn't see any reason for this. There weren't any obstructions or engineering works on the usual route. So I was wondering if anyone knew why or whether this happened very often. Thanks!
Oh and I have a supplementary question... I got a C stock train from Earl's Court to Wimbledon later that week and the driver seemed to be using the Westinghouse brake all the way along the branch since there was a lot of the (I gather) tell tale "heavy breathing" sound as he released the brake just before coming to a stop at the platform. The ride was very smooth and I almost complimented him on arriving at Wimbledon! So I was also wondering whether any of the District line drivers here did this very often... isn't it supposed to be quite an art?
Would be fascinated to hear what people think.
Cheers for now!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 16:35:38 GMT
Welcome George! I can't tell you the operational reason for your particular train using platform 2 at Gloucester Road, but remember that this used to be standard practice for District line trains, at least off-peak. I'm sure someone from the District staff will be along shortly with a more revealing answer about your experience.
I think the platforming of District westbound and Circle outer rail trains changed sometime around 1990-2, so that they used separate platforms. Before then they tended to all use platform 2, certainly off-peak and Saturday when I semi-regularly used it.
Historically of course, there were four platforms as a legacy of the building of the Circle by two companies, and there was a major reorganisation of the lines between High St Ken and South Ken sometime in the 1960s (just before my time), which made it a lot simpler for passengers to know which platform the first train would go from.
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Post by chrish on Dec 28, 2008 17:03:30 GMT
Greetings, all! I have been lurking in this fascinating forum for ages and have at last been prompted to ask a question! I was travelling from Sloane Square to Wimbledon on Saturday, 20 December. When we arrived at South Kensington, the driver announced that we would be calling at platform 2 at Gloucester Road not the usual platform and sure enough we did. This was obviously rather exciting, but I couldn't see any reason for this. There weren't any obstructions or engineering works on the usual route. So I was wondering if anyone knew why or whether this happened very often. Thanks! Oh and I have a supplementary question... I got a C stock train from Earl's Court to Wimbledon later that week and the driver seemed to be using the Westinghouse brake all the way along the branch since there was a lot of the (I gather) tell tale "heavy breathing" sound as he released the brake just before coming to a stop at the platform. The ride was very smooth and I almost complimented him on arriving at Wimbledon! So I was also wondering whether any of the District line drivers here did this very often... isn't it supposed to be quite an art? Would be fascinated to hear what people think. Cheers for now! Awww.. shucks, you may well have been on my train! ;D There are only about 3 of us at Earl's Court who I am aware of using the westinghouse to the extent you describe, so could really have been any of us, but I was definately on C stocks a fair bit! It does take a bit of practice to use the Westinghouse properly, but if you play about with it enough then you will get to the point of being able to do it anywhere. Most problems with this brake come from being scared of it because they don't use it often enough! Can't help on your other enquiry... off that day (Christmas Party day! ;D ;D  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 17:42:18 GMT
The problem on 20 December was a points failure west of South Kensington from 10.10. The points were those where the westbound District split from the outer rail Circle. Once the initial problem was (sort of) 'sorted' (by about 12.00), which meant securing the offending points, all trains had to operate via platform 2 - until the end of traffic I believe.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 19:23:56 GMT
this is a un-usual move but seen more and more recently due to the points at south ken this is abit risky though as EE230rt1 (gloucester road circle starter) hardly ever gets used only usually by engineer trains so if them points failed 228w there would be alot of shouting as the district drivers are not road trainned towards high st ken from gloucester road
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 19:40:28 GMT
is abit risky though as EE230rt1 (gloucester road circle starter) hardly ever gets used only usually by engineer trains so if them points failed 228w there would be alot of shouting as the district drivers are not road trainned towards high st ken from gloucester road Also the D stock would be facing the wrong way, and be needed to do the move later to restore the correct A end west and D end east "polarity". |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 19:49:52 GMT
I use the Westinghouse a lot on C stock. Mind you, if they were all perfectly on the mark it probably wasn't me!
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Post by londonstuff on Dec 28, 2008 20:24:04 GMT
Surely the station starter at Gloucester Road that DistrictSOM describes are used by Circle line trains about to go towards High St Ken? Or am I thinking about something different?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 21:26:28 GMT
I daresay this would mean re-organising the trackwork, but wouldn't the logical thing be for all westbound services to use the side platform (? No 1) and city-bound services to use the island (one side each for trains ex-EC and ex-HSK)?
I'm sure that's how you'd all design a new three-platform junction station, so why isn't that the layout at Gloucester Road?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 21:37:04 GMT
Surely the station starter at Gloucester Road that DistrictSOM describes are used by Circle line trains about to go towards High St Ken? Or am I thinking about something different? No i ment D stocks cannot with district drivers cannot go from gloucester road to high st ken as the drivers are not road trained on that section of track ok its not hard a few semis but all with straight routes but its there position (if a bulb blows) they need to know its not as simple as you may think plus as jim says they will be the wrong way round and its not as simple just leaving them like it because of if a failed train needed a push out you simply just connect them up as it will not work |
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Post by georgeinwimbledon on Dec 28, 2008 22:06:59 GMT
Wow! Thanks for the explanation and background on what could go wrong with using this route! It really helps a punter like me understand the complications of running something as complex as the tube.
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Post by trainopd78 on Dec 28, 2008 22:58:44 GMT
Im one of those who mainly uses the westinghouse on my C stock when I drive, but I had a trainee and as the trainee used to drive 72s on the Northern his westinghouse was hot to start with so I didn't do my usual practice trips.  So not me ;D ;D |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 28, 2008 23:16:55 GMT
Also the D stock would be facing the wrong way, and be needed to do the move later to restore the correct A end west and D end east "polarity". But if a D stock had to go to High Street Kensington from Gloucester Road, wouldn't it be sent back to Gloucester Road (instead of to Earl's Court), so that it wouldn't be the wrong way round. |
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Post by Harsig on Dec 29, 2008 11:21:57 GMT
I daresay this would mean re-organising the trackwork, but wouldn't the logical thing be for all westbound services to use the side platform (? No 1) and city-bound services to use the island (one side each for trains ex-EC and ex-HSK)? I'm sure that's how you'd all design a new three-platform junction station, so why isn't that the layout at Gloucester Road? The reason the current layout came about was because of the delays suffered by the westbound District services because they were stuck behind an Outer Rail Circle line train which was waiting for a chance to cross over the eastbound District. The current layout eliminates this problem by allowing westbound Districts to overtake such Circle trains while they wait in their own platform at Gloucester Road. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 15:50:19 GMT
Yes, that makes sense, Harsig. (You always do  So really we need four platforms at Gloucester Road! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 20:24:50 GMT
Lately the Circle's seem to overtake us as we queue into Earl's Court !!
However there seems to be a self sustaining problem in a reluctance to use certain sets of points because they are rarely used and may fail !!
There is a dot matrix at Platform 2 at Gloucester Road, however on 4 trips through that platform with District Line trains in the last few months, it has always showed "Circle Line via Paddington" ... not helpfull !!
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 29, 2008 21:54:31 GMT
Lately the Circle's seem to overtake us as we queue into Earl's Court !! I thought Districts only queue into Earl's Court when coming from High Street Kensington, as they send Wimbledon trains into platform 4 in front of trains coming from Edgware Road, when they could use platform 3. That seems to happen, anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 22:00:43 GMT
not it only happens when the train is booked to go via plat 4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2008 23:07:09 GMT
And why are trains from the City booked into platform 4?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2008 23:10:18 GMT
as its easier when there is a gap from high st ken to route the wimbo service for a faster run when the train leaves earls court and does not stop the ealing or richmond service
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Post by upfast on Dec 30, 2008 23:49:30 GMT
Whenever the timetable wants it too.
The platform working of trains can also be adjusted by the Service Operator, in the best interests of the train service.
There may well be a correllation to trains using platform 4, stand time and booked train crew reliefs.
Back to Gloucester Road, every now and then the Programme Machine rolls are incorrectly punched for some, or even just the one train, to send it via platform 2 at Gl. Rd.
If the PM (S.Ken PM S4) is in Programme Mode, then it will send it that way!
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 31, 2008 20:05:57 GMT
as its easier when there is a gap from high st ken to route the wimbo service for a faster run when the train leaves earls court and does not stop the ealing or richmond service The problem with that is if a Circle line train is delayed at Gloucester Road (because it has to wait for a gap in the EB District service), it could then delay a Edgware Road - Wimbledon train at High Street Kensington, and that could then have to wait for a District that has come from Gloucester Road to use platform 4, because the timetable says there should have been a gap in the the trains from High Street Kensington! |
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Post by upfast on Dec 31, 2008 20:15:59 GMT
as its easier when there is a gap from high st ken to route the wimbo service for a faster run when the train leaves earls court and does not stop the ealing or richmond service The problem with that is if a Circle line train is delayed at Gloucester Road (because it has to wait for a gap in the EB District service), it could then delay a Edgware Road - Wimbledon train at High Street Kensington, and that could then have to wait for a District that has come from Gloucester Road to use platform 4, because the timetable says there should have been a gap in the the trains from High Street Kensington! The real railway doesn't quite work like that. Even if the timetable department does! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2008 21:02:48 GMT
Generally the signallers do a fair job of juggling the use of the two westbound platforms. Conflicts such as an Olympia in pl4 and a Wimbledon in Pl3 do happen, but queuing into Earl's Court is usually a symptom of some earlier problem generating crewing relief problems at that location.
As for the middle platform at Gloucester Road, I welcome the variety of running via it, it's also the only time where a D stock must use "end door cut out" and we can play the corresponding DVA message for the passengers. ;D
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Post by upfast on Dec 31, 2008 21:06:55 GMT
As for the middle platform at Gloucester Road, I welcome the variety of running via it, it's also the only time where a D stock must use "end door cut out" and we can play the corresponding DVA message for the passengers. ;D Other than Ealing Common WB ex depot? |
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 1, 2009 0:00:14 GMT
But you wouldn't need to use the DVA message there, as the train would be empty (I would have thought that trains coming out of the depot in that direction would run out of service to Ealing Broadway anyway).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2009 4:10:46 GMT
But you wouldn't need to use the DVA message there, as the train would be empty (I would have thought that trains coming out of the depot in that direction would run out of service to Ealing Broadway anyway). It is true that the DVA message is not needed in this case, but the trains do mostly run in service to Ealing Broadway. The timetable shows a very frequent Ealing Common to Ealing Broadway service early in the morning! |
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Post by upfast on Jan 1, 2009 9:21:32 GMT
I did mean the end door cut out. Not the waffly speaky voice machine!
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Post by happybunny on Jan 1, 2009 23:58:30 GMT
Most people don't bother afaik. Nobody will be getting on an Ealing Bdy train ex depot to anything than the front one or two cars
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2009 23:22:04 GMT
Points 254 failed it hasn't been one of the finest works done in replacing these points with new standard ones (keeps failing).
GR Plat 2 is also used when a trainee SO is on shift so they get the understanding of how to route District Train via plat 2 also the programme machines at South Ken during engineering not too good it routes ealing broadway train via platform 2 when in prog with circle train no. on machines
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So not me 
