New Routemaster - competition winners

Trams! Trams! *cries*



Only if the bus is fitted with a bandit screen - if the bus doesn't have one it's no use...

Which there are - but they're ignoring them and digging up the entire city to put them in places where the tourists will think they're pretty! *seethes*

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Shoot me down in flames if you want,but when the bendy-buses first appeared, (route 207 IIRC) I developed a theory that,in conjunction with continuous Bus-lanes,they were essentially a trial-run to test the practicality of a Continental-type tram system in London proper.Now THAT would be a nice idea......[/[/i]quote]

No, I fear it was just a cheapskate alternative.

In fact I'd nothing against bendies if, as in the provinces, it was entry only through the front door with proof of payment required and exit only via centre and/or rear with some form of hinged barrier to enforce it. This would allow loadings to keep within safe levels, keep out the freeloaders, winos, tramps etc and generally enforce a certain level of order. In addition express working would allow a form of tramway-lite to augment existing buses (not *replace* them as on the 25, 38, 73 etc).

Experience has surely shown that standards of public behaviour do not support that unsupervised 'open boarding' is a viable option in the London of 2008 and the ever wider gating of National Rail stations is only another example of the realisation of this fact.

[/quote]In fact I'd nothing against bendies if, as in the provinces, it was entry only through the front door with proof of payment required and exit only via centre and/or rear with some form of hinged barrier to enforce it. This would allow loadings to keep within safe levels, keep out the freeloaders, winos, tramps etc and generally enforce a certain level of order. In addition express working would allow a form of tramway-lite to augment existing buses (not *replace* them as on the 25, 38, 73 etc).

Experience has surely shown that standards of public behaviour do not support that unsupervised 'open boarding' is a viable option in the London of 2008 and the ever wider gating of National Rail stations is only another example of the realisation of this fact. [/quote]

As a frequent user of the 29 bus route,I couldn't agree more! Drivers regularly warn of pickpockets over the PA as they pass through Camden.
As a pass-holder (legal traveller!) I get on a half empty 253 and get a seat upstairs,whilst half the bus "queue" awaits the next crush-filled but gratis 29 on the same stretch of route.
The "scally" attitude means that what works in Berlin or Berne isn't a real option here in London!
.....And try passing a stationary one if you're a cyclist.

I don't fancy going on the other two,then!!!

Well, here in London, there are way's to either 'prove' or 'dis-prove' the passenger allegation of what we would call FNT (Fare Taken - No Ticket Issued.

A ticket check on the driver issued Inspectors Ticket would tell me how many tickets the driver had issued and if I could find them all in the possession of other passengers, then the passenger is telling porkies.
If I couldn't, maybe a passenger had got off, then there are two courses of action if the driver doesn't cop to being a thief'
1) Believe the punter and issue another ticket, with a mental note to report the driver for obs by the Plain Clothed Inspectors who will 'test customer' him a few times to see if they can catch him out;
2) Believe the driver and penalty fare the punter - after all, it is the passengers responsibility to ensure they have the correct ticket for their journey.

In my experience, there was usually a 70/30 split - the punters having the 70 - when this type of allegation was raised.

In one famous instance, I boarded an X26 by mistake and found 18 people - all the cash fares - either without tickets or with inspectors tickets (which in general are worthless).
In those days, the single fare from Heathrow to Croydon was £3.60 - go figure.

The driver cheerfully threw the bus at me with the comment of: 'this will be the third time I've been caught, the company will probably sack me this time'.

The fun I had....

In three visits to Berlin I've been checked four times on the U-Bahn. I haven't been checked on an LU train for at least 5 years and only about 3 times at the barrier despite making around 14 trips per week on average.

Not really. The 'public order is declining, oooh' thing is pretty much made up to provide middle-aged car-driving Daily Mail-reading Boris-voting suburbanites with their daily dosage of Fear And Loathing (the Romans invented the phrase 'o tempora o mores', and old people have been lamenting the Youth Of Today ever since...)

The 29 is not dangerous. The local reporter quoted on Wiki needs a horsewhipping for taking the absolute crime numbers for the 29, and not dividing it by the number of pax - of course one of the busiest buses will have more total crimes, just as there are more murders in China than South Africa despite the latter's much worse crime problem.

The gating at NR is largely to stop people on longish-distance commutes getting away with serious dodging. The farebox isn't particularly relevant to buses: it'd probably be better on a B/CA level (not least for the benefit of other road users) to make the current bendy routes free of charge if the alternative was to impose crazy rules like 'no rear boarding'. Although as it happens, fare evasion rates on the bendies are pretty much the same as on normal buses - see www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/10/27/idiot-of-the-week/#comment-23047 .

[/quote]The 29 is not dangerous. [/quote]

Go from Camden Town to Finsbury Park 0n the 29 at least twice a week as I do.
Then do the same journey on the 253.
Come back and tell me,with a straight face,that they are equally pleasant.
I rest my case.
The bendy buses driver is in a very poor position to exercise any influence outside his cab,compared to a conventional bus.
Loadings on these buses are often at dangerous levels.How many standing passengers are they insured for,I wonder? What if a really packed one was involved in a serius crash? The driver cannot stop people boarding,whether for reasons of overcrowding or lack of ticket.
If an "incident" takes place,the perpetrators can take off before the driver can respond,or fight his way through the crowds to do anything.
On the 253, I've seen the driver switch off his engine and say "we don't go anywhere till you show me a valid ticket/stop doing that/etc" this is scarcely a plausible scenario n a Bendy-bus.
I'm not against the Bendy bus in principle,just the way it has been applied here in London.
And,no,I don't read the Daily Mail,did't vote for Boris and most certainly DON'T live in the suburbs!!

Unless my knowledge of PSV laws is out of date, a driver is personally responsible for the number of passengers on a bus - and can get points on his license for overcrowding a bus.

By "cannot",in this context,I mean,of course,"Is not physically capable of,whatever his terms of employment may say"

It's not a terms of employment issue - as Tomcakes quite correctly states, the driver (or conductor if a crew operated vehicle) has a legal responsibility under PCV regulations to ensure that the vehicle's stated capacities are not exceeded.

A fine, and in the case of a driver penalty points on their licence, are a very real possibility if they are found to have exceeded the vehicle's stated capacity.

How likely it is to exceed those on a bendy bus is another matter though!

Whilst the engine going quiet is a bus drivers best weapon, a reliable vehicle is a pre-requisite! There is nothing worse than trying to make a point only to find you can't restart the thing! ;D ;D ;D ;D

As for only using the front door, how practical do you think that would be on a three door bendy bus?