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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 22:52:00 GMT
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere before, but is it really necessary to close both the Met and Jubilee between Baker Street and Finchley Road for the current weekend works?
Fin Road to Wembley Park I can understand as it might not be possible/legal to work on one without closing the other, but I seem to remember Met shuttles running between FR and Baker Street/Aldgate on previous closures, why not now?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 1, 2008 0:05:38 GMT
I would suspect that one of the main reasons is that a crossover in the Finchley Road area is longer available for use (see This Thread for more). Also, because of the computerised signalling in the area, traction current 'buffer zones' are most likely required. I may well be wrong, seeing as I don't know the area all that well, but I reckon I'm probably not far wrong.... |
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Post by Dmitri on Dec 1, 2008 12:56:52 GMT
a crossover in the Finchley Road area is longer available for use  Did you mean ' no longer available for use' (as in 'does not exist')? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 1, 2008 14:37:54 GMT
I did indeed - slight typing error on my part  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 18:33:19 GMT
AFAIK the suspension was to allow the running of test trains and the associated testing of signal equipment.
Additionally work which would've resulted in another weekend of work was undertaken at Preston Road and Baker Street.
As well as the numerous replacement bus services, TfL also paid for extra and longer chiltern trains to run.
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 1, 2008 19:22:09 GMT
My girlfriend wasn't very impressed with Chiltern's service, she had to wait over 30 mins for a train!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 20:30:23 GMT
My girlfriend wasn't very impressed with Chiltern's service, she had to wait over 30 mins for a train!! On Sunday? Trains due to leave Marylebone at XX07 XX27 XX37 And Harrow at XX03, XX29, XX49 . |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2008 19:06:53 GMT
My girlfriend wasn't very impressed with Chiltern's service, she had to wait over 30 mins for a train!! On Sunday? Trains due to leave Marylebone at XX07 XX27 XX37And Harrow at XX03, XX29, XX49 . Assuming that you actually meant 37 and not 47, that make a 30mn gap ! |
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Post by rrbs on Dec 31, 2008 11:32:50 GMT
On the Sundays (2,30 November) Chiltern operated 2 tph HOH-MYB shuttles, as well as their usual 1 tph MYB-Aylesbury. If the aforementioned girlfriend had to sit on a replacement bus from Harrow to Baker Street she'd have been complaining a damned sight more.
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 31, 2008 13:34:31 GMT
Quite! I don't think she saw any sign of the shuttles tho. Did the trains run every 20 mins when combined with the one through train?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2008 16:51:44 GMT
It would have been a Health and Safety Nightmare to allow the Met to run alongside a Jubilee line that was under possession with the possibility of staff working on the track.
Never mind how to run the Met service through Wembley Park where it would have interfered with the testing of the Jubilee line signalling work.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2008 19:20:06 GMT
I hope a lot of work has been carried out: this has been a FOUR DAYS interruption for both lines: Xmas day, boxing day plus the week end.
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2008 20:18:34 GMT
The Jubilee line was to get its new Signalling system 'dual fitted' over the old one - not a small task by any means.
The Met was shut down to allow immunisation of the Harrow on the Hill area against the S Stock - whilst I don't know the number of track circuits involved, I would expect with all the splitting of tracks that is needed, it will easily be around the 50 mark.
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Post by citysig on Jan 1, 2009 10:38:44 GMT
I hope a lot of work has been carried out: this has been a FOUR DAYS interruption for both lines: Xmas day, boxing day plus the week end. This is the big problem with shutdowns of this nature. The general public will endure the disruption and hope to return to see new trains, new track, new stations and all sorts of sparkly new things. Unfortunately, sometimes some of the "behind the scenes" major projects don't give any clue to the normal passenger that anything has been done. "That little bump south of x, that leaking roof at y, none of them seem to have been touched and yet they had days to do it while I had to catch a bus." |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2009 11:45:15 GMT
I hope a lot of work has been carried out: this has been a FOUR DAYS interruption for both lines: Xmas day, boxing day plus the week end. This is the big problem with shutdowns of this nature. The general public will endure the disruption and hope to return to see new trains, new track, new stations and all sorts of sparkly new things. Unfortunately, sometimes some of the "behind the scenes" major projects don't give any clue to the normal passenger that anything has been done. "That little bump south of x, that leaking roof at y, none of them seem to have been touched and yet they had days to do it while I had to catch a bus." Exactly, do the public relise that ALL of the bullhead track has been replaced north of Harrow except the little bit around the curve to Watford? ;D |
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Post by stanmorek on Jan 2, 2009 14:20:19 GMT
Adding to "behind the scenes" work, the last few remaining escalators running on DC supply such as Moorgate 3 & 4 have been taken out of service to be converted to AC supply for the SSL Upgrade. I'm told that the work is necessary for electro-magnetic compatibilty purposes. The escalator motors could be affected by the s-stock by slowing and speeding up uncontrollably.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2009 21:16:43 GMT
It would have been a Health and Safety Nightmare to allow the Met to run alongside a Jubilee line that was under possession with the possibility of staff working on the track. Never mind how to run the Met service through Wembley Park where it would have interfered with the testing of the Jubilee line signalling work. If you read my original post you'll know I'd acknowledged this but was asking about Baker Street to Finchley Road where they don't run alongside ;D |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jan 2, 2009 22:12:54 GMT
It would have been a Health and Safety Nightmare to allow the Met to run alongside a Jubilee line that was under possession with the possibility of staff working on the track. Never mind how to run the Met service through Wembley Park where it would have interfered with the testing of the Jubilee line signalling work. If you read my original post you'll know I'd acknowledged this but was asking about Baker Street to Finchley Road where they don't run alongside ;D As the only crossover between Baker Street and Finchley Road on the met line is at the disused Swiss Cottage (met)station, trains could only run empty between Baker Street and Swiss Cottage  |
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Harsig
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Post by Harsig on Jan 3, 2009 7:48:11 GMT
As the only crossover between Baker Street and Finchley Road on the met line is at the disused Swiss Cottage (met)station, trains could only run empty between Baker Street and Swiss Cottage In fact they couldn't even do that as the crossover can only be used to reverse south to north. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 3, 2009 12:15:06 GMT
How old is this crossover Harsig?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 3, 2009 14:59:12 GMT
Ooh, It was in a copy of Underground News that; replaced an earlier one at Lords (?)
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Harsig
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Post by Harsig on Jan 3, 2009 17:29:01 GMT
How old is this crossover Harsig? The crossover at Swiss Cottage was provided in May 1964. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jan 3, 2009 18:46:07 GMT
How old is this crossover Harsig? The crossover at Swiss Cottage was provided in May 1964. It was worked via route setting push buttons in Finchley Road Signal Box. The interlocking machine room had 12 shafts. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 3, 2009 18:52:24 GMT
Thank you
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Post by suncloud on Jan 4, 2009 13:16:23 GMT
You could provide a service on a single train shuttle basis between baker street and finchley road, but I doubt it is that advantageous to be worth it.
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Post by citysig on Jan 4, 2009 20:17:50 GMT
In theory, a 20-minute single-line service could work. However in practice it takes a lot of setting up, would not really benefit that many people, and then there is the question of how do you get the train back to Neasden depot in the event of a fault.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 4, 2009 20:33:03 GMT
and then there is the question of how do you get the train back to Neasden depot in the event of a fault. Isn't there that problem when nothing could run through Harrow on the Hill, but trains were running north of Northwood? |
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Post by citysig on Jan 5, 2009 15:54:04 GMT
Yes, but with the advantage of having a)more than one train running so if one is lost, the whole service isn't suspended b) a spare train or two to change trains over with whilst the first is hopefully attended to and fixed by a technician c)sidings in which to leave the defective train.
Admittedly, those shutdowns do have the same problem to a certain extent, but you have a few more get outs in the event of a problem. Even when the Jubilee ran single-line between Stanmore and Kingsbury the other year, contingencies were in place to get trains in and out of Stanmore sidings.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 10:45:15 GMT
Can someone please explain to me why it is felt neccessary to close both the Met and the Jubilee lines when work is only taking place on one, but where the District runs parrallel with the Piccadilly, if one line closes, the other line can sometimes be kept open?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 13, 2009 12:28:57 GMT
Have you even read the other messages in this thread?
I have no knowledge other than from this forum (including this thread) and common sense, but whether one line remains open or both are shut depends on the type of work being done and the location of the work, including such factors as the distance between the lines at that point, presence and availability or otherwise of crossovers, traction current arrangements, protection arrangements, access arrangements, and probably a fair few other things as well.
If it is safe, practical and economic (in terms of direct costs, time, disruption and the cost/benefit ratio of all of these) to have one line open while another is worked on then one line will be open. If any of these are not present then both lines will be closed. In certain circumstances it might be possible to have a safe system of work with one line closed and one open, but because this would take two weekend closures to complete the work rather than one if all lines are closed, then everyone involved in the planning will have to work out which option has the best cost-beneift ratio. This will probably be different for different stretches of the same route, let alone different routes.
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Did you mean 'no longer available for use' (as in 'does not exist')?
