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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2008 16:07:32 GMT
I must say I rather like to see "unusual" destinations up and running ! Especially "Olympia" through the city ;D ;D
I think the destination displays Prakash says he puts up are best in the circumstances !
I recollect an ocassion some years back when a Barking - Wimbledon via Kings Cross was in use during engineering works, I took some pictures of the C stock trains showing "Wimbledon" at the east end of the line. I assume drivers swapped at Edgware Road ? at least they'd have to if it were done today.
A few weeks back I had cause to drive a train Barking - Edgware Road via Victoria. I think i showed it as "Gloucester Road" to Tower Hill and then "Edgware Road".
If we have a shut down and you don't know where you'll end up, I show either Earl's Court or Turnham Green. Passengers get very huffy if a train is curtailed or diverted, but are delighted if a train is extended where they want to go. It may be a form of psycology of expectations, but one is negative and generates ill feeling the other is positive and generates good feeling, though the train would have done the same thing whatever was shown !!
With these Circle Line engineering shutdowns some drivers show Liverpool Street (or Moorgate) and Baker Street which i think is excellent. Not impressed with those showing the bland "Circle Line" I think a destination should be shown where there is one !
I do think these Hammersmith via Shephers Bush blinds now need urgent changing (by the way blinds are changed quite often as the dayglow yellow fades and blinds get dirty with tunnel dust, so it's not the big deal you may think). Hammersmith via Wood Lane seems good ! Personally I'd wind the blind to just show Hammersmith and hide the "via" line until new sets are issued !
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 21, 2008 16:18:51 GMT
Personally I'd wind the blind to just show Hammersmith and hide the "via" line until new sets are issued ! That might be confusing before you get on the train, but then the DVA would say 'This is a Hammersmith & City line train...' so it woudn't matter that much if there was no 'via' line on the blind. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2008 16:46:22 GMT
If we have a shut down and you don't know where you'll end up, I show either Earl's Court or Turnham Green. Passengers get very huffy if a train is curtailed or diverted, but are delighted if a train is extended where they want to go. I do the same. Unless they have hundreds of the old blinds in stock, which wouldn't surprise me. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 21, 2008 20:52:32 GMT
The new destination boards at Euston Square and Great Portland Street just show HAMMERSMITH! I think it is fine to show just Hammersmith as Aspect suggested.
If I remember, the 1960 stock used to do the same with Hainault on the blind ,with via Newbury Park hidden under.
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Post by citysig on Dec 21, 2008 20:53:12 GMT
I recollect an ocassion some years back when a Barking - Wimbledon via Kings Cross was in use during engineering works, I took some pictures of the C stock trains showing "Wimbledon" at the east end of the line. I assume drivers swapped at Edgware Road ? at least they'd have to if it were done today. That, in fact, was the works I was referring to, and the drivers did change at Edgware Road, both eastbound and westbound, with more or less each driver (especially District chaps) having to leave Platform 1 and pick up on 4 within around 8 minutes. Of course, late running in either direction messed this up slightly. With these Circle Line engineering shutdowns some drivers show Liverpool Street (or Moorgate) and Baker Street which i think is excellent. Not impressed with those showing the bland "Circle Line" I think a destination should be shown where there is one ! Those showing the Circle Line are correct though, given that at weekends we are a tourist railway, and more people will recognise a "Circle Line" train (even if it is not going all the way round) to one which shows Moorgate or Liverpool Street. Hammersmith via Wood Lane seems good ! Personally I'd wind the blind to just show Hammersmith and hide the "via" line until new sets are issued ! Which means that instead of affording our customers some sort of clue as to which way the train will be heading, you are removing any hint at all by hiding - an albeit slightly inaccurate - piece of information. For years, a town close to me was simply known as "Letchworth" although the proper name was (as they loved to spout) Letchworth Garden City. For years the Garden City part was ommitted from everything including railway timetables. Nobody I know ever got that mislead. We have to remember that our customers do have a little more intelligence than we often give them credit for ;D |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 21, 2008 22:26:38 GMT
Which means that instead of affording our customers some sort of clue as to which way the train will be heading, you are removing any hint at all by hiding - an albeit slightly inaccurate - piece of information. But when the annoucement on the train says that it will be a H&C, they will know what way it will go. Anyway, people who use the line a lot would know that you don't normally have District trains terminating at Hammersmith, and as C stock have DVA, it only matters if you get on at Aldgate East or Edgware Road, where you can't change at the next station (and you should be able to get off the train at the same station just after you hear the DVA). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2008 14:59:19 GMT
Those showing the Circle Line are correct though, given that at weekends we are a tourist railway, and more people will recognise a "Circle Line" train (even if it is not going all the way round) to one which shows Moorgate or Liverpool Street. It bucks the trend of every other line which shows a destination - said tourists will still have to identify that an "Upminster" isn't a circle, nor a "Whitechapel" nor an "Amersham" etc ... the only reason a Circle usualy shows "Circle Line" is because there is no destination to display. The platform DMI will still show it as a Circle. My experience is that if you give a display that infers the train is going somewhere it isn't you upset people ! That said, whatever the offical position I applaud the drivers who put up accurate destination displays ;D |
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Post by citysig on Dec 22, 2008 20:08:58 GMT
But when the annoucement on the train says that it will be a H&C, they will know what way it will go. Anyway, people who use the line a lot would know that you don't normally have District trains terminating at Hammersmith You're quite right. People who use the tube as a whole regularly, don't need many of the things provided. Most don't even need a map, and many can easily work out that all important "alternative route" when it all goes wrong. But it's for the less regular user that hints and tips - albeit in this case slightly out of date by a few weeks - are there to help them. Ask my family, for instance, who don't live anywhere near London, if a train on the District normally terminates at Hammersmith. The look will be fairly blank I can assure you. At the end of the day, the stranger will help pay my wages as much as the commuter, so why shouldn't we give them all we can to help them. It bucks the trend of every other line which shows a destination - said tourists will still have to identify that an "Upminster" isn't a circle, nor a "Whitechapel" nor an "Amersham" etc ... the only reason a Circle usualy shows "Circle Line" is because there is no destination to display. The platform DMI will still show it as a Circle. My experience is that if you give a display that infers the train is going somewhere it isn't you upset people ! The Circle is not every other line though. Showing a destination that will never be reached may upset some, but as central area station staff here will no doubt confirm, if you put up "unfamiliar" TDs then tourists and less-regular users won't get on! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 23:43:15 GMT
The Circle is not every other line though. It is when it's not running a full circle! Showing a destination that will never be reached may upset some, but as central area station staff here will no doubt confirm, if you put up "unfamiliar" TDs then tourists and less-regular users won't get on! Tourists and less-regular users will be none the wiser as to what are or are not unfamilliar TD's so they'll have to look the place up whatever is shown ! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 10:24:25 GMT
I must admit, I usually display Moorgate/Kings Cross etc on weekend shutdowns, although it does mean a few knocks at the cab door when sitting in Kings Cross WB after the mainline shunt.
However there are always hundreds of people who won't get on anyway as they are waiting for non-existent Mets and H&Cs (which are shut down east of BKS and ERD). You then have to open the cab door anyway and shepherd all these people onto the train explaining where they need to change.
My aversion to displaying Circle Line is that I don't want an ear-bashing at Moorgate when I go back to tip out by someone who saw the description and is now p*ssed off they can't get to Farringdon or wherever. I will use the Circle Line DVA until Paddington Outer Rail and Aldgate inner rail and make PAs for the last couple of stops in either direction to try and get most of the punters geared up for the terminus.
We have had no official guidance (as far as i'm aware) as to how we should be describing our trains during special working, so I guess management are happy for us to use our discretion.
As for signage, Russian railways still use the old Soviet names for a lot of their stations even though a lot of the towns they serve were re-named after the fall of communism. For example, Ekaterinburg is still shown as Sverdlovsk on timetables and even station signage the best part of 20 years later, and the Russians still seem to be able to get around. Personally I reckon Hammersmith via Ladbroke Grove would be better - it's a more established station - and only those with long memories or shopaholics would know where Wood Lane is.
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Post by citysig on Dec 24, 2008 10:58:37 GMT
Tourists and less-regular users will be none the wiser as to what are or are not unfamilliar TD's so they'll have to look the place up whatever is shown ! The Circle is unique, as, on the same platforms as this "line" operates, different services also pass through. The times I've been on a NR train full of American tourists, coming down from Cambridge, and you hear them saying "Now we need the Circle Line train to XYZ. That's the way we went before" They get onto King's Cross platforms, and because there's no service on a small section on the opposite side of the Circle, the line no longer exists, so they end up waiting and waiting whilst all the other services (including the "Circles") pass through. It is a hard puzzle to get right, and thus enable everyone to board a train they were expecting, but whatever we can show that best mirrors what they were expecting, surely helps the majority at weekends. Those who know London will know where Moorgate or South Ken is. We have had no official guidance (as far as i'm aware) as to how we should be describing our trains during special working, so I guess management are happy for us to use our discretion. Every special timetable has all the guidance you require. Sometimes it requests the "usual" TD be displayed with additional announcements, and sometimes it will dictate different TDs. Won't there always be people unhappy about everything? Truth is, we cannot win, and that should be taught on day one. Mind you, if you look around, that should be taught to everyone in any job. |
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 25, 2008 23:48:21 GMT
The Circle is unique, as, on the same platforms as this "line" operates, different services also pass through. The times I've been on a NR train full of American tourists, coming down from Cambridge, and you hear them saying "Now we need the Circle Line train to XYZ. That's the way we went before" They get onto King's Cross platforms, and because there's no service on a small section on the opposite side of the Circle, the line no longer exists, so they end up waiting and waiting whilst all the other services (including the "Circles") pass through. Can't a sign be put up at stations saying something like 'The Circle line is suspended between X and Y. Circle line trains are showing X and Y on the front, and not Circle line', and then say that if you are confused, ask the staff for help. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2008 20:11:40 GMT
If people are strangers to the system, how would they know that the circle is a 'special' line? Would it not be just another line to them with trains travelling in one direction or another, and maybe terminating somewhere? Just because it is a circle it doesn't automatically imply that all trains run round and round permanently; it doesn't take very much grey matter to realise that they must have to occasionally terminate somewhere. A fresh tourist isn't going to expect a train with 'Piccadilly Line' or even 'Metropolitan Line' written on the front, why would they expect one with 'Circle Line'?
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 26, 2008 20:22:12 GMT
Will this be less of a problem when the S stock starts running, as the destination displays will be big enough to show the destination, and 'Circle line'?
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 26, 2008 23:53:43 GMT
Will they be big enough?
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 27, 2008 12:28:58 GMT
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Post by citysig on Dec 27, 2008 14:33:04 GMT
If people are strangers to the system, how would they know that the circle is a 'special' line? The Circle is a tourist institution. It's one of the reasons it still exists. Just because it is a circle it doesn't automatically imply that all trains run round and round permanently And so, by keeping it labelled as Circle Line, you satisfy those who are looking for it, and also, those who know it doesn't necessarily have to go round and round. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 21:30:25 GMT
I think those of us at the sharp end of undertaking detrainments of trains that have terminated short of their displayed destination or otherwise give the impression they are running a full route length (or circle), understand very clearly the wisdom of showing the actual destination asap !!
My experience seems to suggest those "who care" about the railway, do this. Those who don't generally state it's because they "can't be bothered to change the display".
Notification to passengers of the absence of trains to a particular location should be displayed at point of entry and via station pa systems.
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