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Post by angelislington on Aug 31, 2008 18:02:48 GMT
Hey folks,
I'm sure some of you might be able to give an answer to my simple question, seeing as there's people at all levels of the companies we work for.
Friend of mine keeps getting rostered to work 8 days on the trot - sometimes more - and when he does get a break, it's often only one day then he's back on again. He isn't working shifts, this is all day work.
Is there any legislation which says this is wrong?
From my point of view, I think it is - 8 days followed by 2 days break, maybe, but I don't see how a person can work for that long and then recover in a single day. I'm very angry on this person's behalf because no-one else gets rostered in this way and there's evidence of harassment for other issues, but that's another thing altogether... I've been asked to be the witness at this person's disciplinary, so I want to get facts straight first. He's not a union member, unfortunately.
Thanks in advance, lovely peeps!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2008 18:24:37 GMT
Not sure about the law, but on LU we can and do work up to 10 days until we get a rest day.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 31, 2008 18:29:26 GMT
I am sure the trains side is the same as the stations AFAIK [but will be corrected!] and we can do 8 days consecutively without a rest day.
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Post by angelislington on Aug 31, 2008 18:48:57 GMT
That's interesting - and if anyone knows and works strictly to employment law it'll be TfL. Other industries clearly vary, though... I wonder how that fits in with the European Working Time Directive? (You can tell I've been googling on this, can't you!) Frinstance, Article 5 here. I gather you can opt out of being governed by the EWTD. That might be what's happened here - I'll give my mate a buzz & report back. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Aug 31, 2008 19:10:52 GMT
The UK has/had a derogation from the EU Time Directive. My daughter did at one stage work 8 days on the trot at a large supermarket, because of request to do overtime. There was nothing she could do. I work seven days per week, generally every week, but then I'm self-employed. I never seem to get any rest period with kids around!
The only concern that I have with being requested to work excessively is one of health-and-safety. No-one should be asked to work if they are unfit, especially through tiredness.
Oh, and the answer to how you get out of the ETD is basically down to what your contract of employment says. If it says that you can be asked to work so many days, or compulsory overtime, then you are bound by it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2008 20:41:27 GMT
I am sure the trains side is the same as the stations AFAIK [but will be corrected!] and we can do 8 days consecutively without a rest day. We obviously work harder than station staff as we do 10 days consecutively  |
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Post by angelislington on Aug 31, 2008 22:34:09 GMT
Now now, Jim, don't start any of that silliness, or I'll have to get my moderator whip and scary boots Question is, what if there *is* no contract? Legally you're supposed to be given one within a month of starting work, right? But what if you haven't got one yet? After a year & a half? The thot plickens. I'm totally with you, OracleTheBirfdayBoy, when you say about it being a H&S issue through tiredness. |
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Post by Colin on Aug 31, 2008 22:51:03 GMT
This may or may not be relevant, but on the buses the legal maximum is 13 days out of 14 - the 14th day must be a rest day. Admittedly I have never worked for a bus company that has that in the rosters, but it is a practice that goes on week in week out with overtime. How else would they be able to claim "Earn £450 per week driving this bus"?  As for station and train agreements for 8 & 10 days......isn't that purely a Union agreement only? |
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Post by Oracle on Sept 1, 2008 9:28:11 GMT
By law you MUST have terms & conditions given to you in writing within so many days of starting even if they were not given at appointment, which is usual now. The contract can be "Ok, you've got the job, the pay is £X per hour, and you start Monday." The contract cam be verbal and the fact that you either say that you will or do actually turn up cements the contracts so to speak. However, in this case the T & C must be examined to see what it says about rest days, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2008 15:50:17 GMT
same on our side u can work a maximum of 13 days then you have to take a rest day and it cannot be booked as A/L either but in a normal shift we only work a maximum of 7 and that only happens for 1 week out of the 10 the usual is 5 working shifts then 2 rest days
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Post by angelislington on Sept 2, 2008 0:33:56 GMT
Hmm. All v interesting - thanks v much, everyone, for your input.
I'll let you know how the disciplinary goes. We've drafted a letter knocking it right back and hopefully even instigating a disciplinary back on the silly moo manager who came up with these stupid complaints in the first place. <rubs hands in glee>
Not that I like doing things like that, but if the manager is going to list a bunch of complaints which specifically single out my friend, while ignoring the fact that everyone else does the same things - not exactly fair, and could easily be construed as harassment...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Sept 2, 2008 6:44:15 GMT
Can't add much - but if there's no contract of employment signed, the managers can do what they like. Including sacking without notice anyone who complains.......... Must be a small and very shoddy firm involved in this, usually the sort to employ immigrants on (below) the minimum wage. If it's a bigger company that's plain disgraceful.
Colin is right - 13 out of 14 seems to be a maximum, but ONLY if you've opted out if the ETD.
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Post by Oracle on Sept 2, 2008 10:21:14 GMT
Not having CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT sent is in fact I think against the law. That's an Induatrial Tribunal job! To elect/sign out of the ETD you must have CofE. Otherwise the Tribunal will have a field day against the employers. You might find a law centre nearby that could assist with a claim like this as this is the sort of practice that should have ben stamped out years ago but is still prevelant in the immigrant-employment industry.
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Post by angelislington on Sept 2, 2008 13:44:35 GMT
Yeah, don't ya just love catering. So glad I'm out of it.
Nope - no contract has been supplied. That's half the problem I think because it means that my mate can't really argue against anything as he doesn't know if he's supposed to do anything or not. The cafe's got two branches and the staff at both seem to have some funny ideas about how to work. Turns out he's also the only one being asked to wear a uniform when everyone else can just wear aprons (and he's not the only one in the kitchen) and the supervisor went on holiday for 2 weeks coming back this week - anyone who knows anything about tourist-dependent trade knows that the last two weeks of August are the busiest of the whole year! ~doh~
Apropos of nothing: I swear every time I go into Canterbury there's a new coffee shop or cafe or restaurant. Soon there won't be any shops other than eateries. Maybe even including the cathedral, lol! (The cathedral did have some official 'tea rooms' but they're now a Starbucks, quelle surprise...)
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Post by Chris M on Sept 2, 2008 14:12:35 GMT
Apropos of nothing: I swear every time I go into Canterbury there's a new coffee shop or cafe or restaurant. Soon there won't be any shops other than eateries. Maybe even including the cathedral, lol! (The cathedral did have some official 'tea rooms' but they're now a Starbucks, quelle surprise...) Even further from the topic of this thread, you have just reminded me of the "shoe event horizon", perhaps this is the modern equivalent of what led to that. |
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Post by Oracle on Sept 2, 2008 16:23:33 GMT
Just to remind, the CONTRACT is: "Turn up on Monday, your pay is £X per hour". You then turn up. Done. However, within so many days you must be then given written TERMS & CONDITIONS of employment. Failure to do so in my out-of-date opinion is a possible Industrial Tribunal job. I perosnally would contact the local law centre of CAB and ask then to write to the employers and demand that the T & C be set out.
On second thoughts I wonder if a complaint to the Dept for Employment.
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