Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 22, 2008 12:00:27 GMT
I wonder if our experts can offer better advice than those so called ones at my local PC World...... As we all know, Dave duilt the main site using Net Objects; it's a good website building program and I too used it to create my District line photo site. The only trouble with it is, as we've both found, if yer computer goes South the website is lost forever (hence why Daves main site & my District line site are both dead in the water). I've now re-aquired the Net Objects program and started on a little project I've promised myself I'd do for a while now (it's transport related but isn't ready yet - the District line photo site will get re-done eventually too) - trouble is it's now 60+ pages and I can no longer do the easy back up option of emailing it as a template between computers because it's size is just too large (I've done this to ensure I've got a back up copy). I've tried to put the Net Objects program onto a memory stick (4GB ) but the memory stick dosen't support anthing other than image or video type files. I then had the idea of an using an external drive (plug in the wall type) - but all they have on the boxes in the shops is how great they are at storing images and videos. I asked the "tech Guys" in my local PC World for advice on whether these external drives can support full programs alongside the usual images & videos and they said "it should do  " (of course pointing out the £100+ ones as being the ones I should look at). I asked them if they were sure cos I didn't wanna spend £70 - £130 on something if it can't do what I want it to. They then said "have you tried a memory stick? " I said I had and that it didn't do what I wanted it to and they said "it should do ". Clearly they didn't seem to appreciate what I was asking and never left me with the impression that they did actually know what they was talking about, so I walked out with the money still in me pocket. So over to you guys - I want to put a program onto something external to a PC so that I can store stuff within the program and use it to transfer stuff between two computers..........any advice? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2008 12:17:48 GMT
An external hard disk is just that - a hard disk that is external to your computer. It will support any data you are to put on it.
A memory stick is the same, it is just storage and shouldn't care what you store on it. If you are trying to run a program from a memory stick that's a bit different as it probably hasn't got all the bits of the program you are tryign to run.
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Post by Dmitri on Jul 22, 2008 12:26:28 GMT
As we all know, Dave duilt the main site using Net Objects; it's a good website building program and I too used it to create my District line photo site. The only trouble with it is, as we've both found, if yer computer goes South the website is lost forever (hence why Daves main site & my District line site are both dead in the water). In fact, it is not lost: if you can download and upload files, you can do everything you want (it may be slow and tedious manual process, but still possible nonetheless - it is how I 'supported' a web-site on my previous job). Memory cards/hard drives/etc. are just a storage, and, like tins, they can hold whatever you put inside. Bottom line: can you be more specific about the problems you've encountered? I've never used NetObjects Fusion, but I can try and (possibly) give some advice. PM or Email me if you want. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 22, 2008 12:41:12 GMT
I can attest to the fact that an external Hard Drive can indeed support software that can be used by a PC or MAC. I use a now outmoded portable HD Freecom Classic ....75 MB capacity is nothing now but it's handy. I hold 27000 images on it for instances, with an indexing portfolio software programme. It runs exactly the same as it it was installed on this PC with its sole C drive, my daughter's with its C,D and F drives and my upstairs PC with its large C drive. I have thus got a portable HD and two back-ups and the same software runs on each.
I can also attest that Outlook Express can be run using stored e mails on a portable HD: you just alter the storage folder from whatever it is on the internal HD to an external one. A portable HD will even store OE and its archives which can then be run..you just need to select either by Windows Explorer or similar indexing system and then click on the executable file in the folder, or create a shortcut from portable HD folder on the desktop.
I also store my own website's html files on my portable HD as a backup...you can download them off the site using Windows' (Internet Explorer) FTP protocol directly to any HD, internal or external or vice versa, and I assume that other operating systems are the same, using FTP and the appropriate browser. Transferring large stored files on the web is so easy and transfer rates then depend on the BB connection rates.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2008 15:47:27 GMT
I run a few programs off my external hard drive so I can't see there being any problems. I wouldn't have thought you'd need a stupidly expensive model either (I know mine certainly isn't).
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Post by Dmitri on Jul 22, 2008 15:57:13 GMT
I wouldn't have thought you'd need a stupidly expensive model either (I know mine certainly isn't). +1. I think a smallest and cheapest one would suffice. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2008 16:06:32 GMT
The only thing to consider is that some USB external hard disks can require a larger amount of power on spin-up than some computers (laptops especially) are prepared to give it. The way around this is to make sure that your external hard disk has an (optional) power supply independent to the USB port.
I have a WD passport and I have this problem with my landlady's small dell laptop, my larger HP one is fine with it though.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 22, 2008 17:10:10 GMT
In fact, it is not lost: if you can download and upload files, you can do everything you want (it may be slow and tedious manual process, but still possible nonetheless - it is how I 'supported' a web-site on my previous job). It is lost if the computer refuses to work - unless I pay £100 to have the hard drive recovered. Bottom line: can you be more specific about the problems you've encountered? I've never used NetObjects Fusion, but I can try and (possibly) give some advice. PM or Email me if you want. Basically I ran the Net Objects CD, and when it asked where to save it, I selected the memory stick. It refused to continue saying that the file type .nod wasn't recognised. In any case, just after I posted the opening post of this thread, the laptop I was using (was babysitting at my mates house) - the one holding the bulk of my new website - froze then went into a constant start up cycle. It has done it before and the only option was to use the recovery master CD. I took it to my local PC world, to see if they help get it going again without resorting to the recovery CD - the upshot was £60 to essentially do what I could do myself for nothing (recovery) or they could attempt to rescue the hard drive for £100 (not forgetting I'd need to buy an external HD there & then  . It's an old laptop running XP, and subject to backing up my website, I was considering getting a new one - so I've now decided to do just that! Impulse buying and all that has seen me get a new laptop (from Comet!) for £340. I'm now on it and just getting used to the differences with Vista..... I now don't have the money to pursue the external HD route this month - so plenty of time for more discussion if anyone else wants to add anything?....... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2008 17:29:43 GMT
In fact, it is not lost: if you can download and upload files, you can do everything you want (it may be slow and tedious manual process, but still possible nonetheless - it is how I 'supported' a web-site on my previous job). It is lost if the computer refuses to work - unless I pay £100 to have the hard drive recovered. For your District Line photo site, which is very much still online the HTML files and images are still on the server and hence still very much recoverable through FTP. |
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Post by angelislington on Jul 22, 2008 17:49:38 GMT
In fact, it is not lost: if you can download and upload files, you can do everything you want (it may be slow and tedious manual process, but still possible nonetheless - it is how I 'supported' a web-site on my previous job). It is lost if the computer refuses to work - unless I pay £100 to have the hard drive recovered. Dimitri's right, and it shouldn't involve HD recovery. When you upload to your ISP's server, your FTP package should also have the option that you can then download any files back onto your own machine. I've not used the inbuilt Windows one, having heard Bad Things (TM) about it, but I have used CuteFTP and WS-FTP which both allow you d/l and u/l. Basically I ran the Net Objects CD, and when it asked where to save it, I selected the memory stick. It refused to continue saying that the file type .nod wasn't recognised. Some software won't be allowed to be installed on removable drives, because they write to the register; if it can't do this it gets into a tizz. I've just had a play around with mine, and that indeed seems to be the case. Try googling for installing apps on removable hardware & see how you get on. Otherwise I'll pass it to my team of super-techies/geeks! Adios, AI |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 22, 2008 18:46:34 GMT
For your District Line photo site, which is very much still online the HTML files and images are still on the server and hence still very much recoverable through FTP. Yes, I can recover the html - but the html isn't transferrable back into the Net Objects program..........or is it? hmmmm..... |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 22, 2008 19:42:01 GMT
I have used Ipswitch's WS_FTP in the past with no problems...just a little slow with transferring bulk files. www.wsftp.com/products/ws_ftp_home/index.aspMy portable HD uses external power supply and it starts up immediately. I decided for our new PC NOT to run VISTA and had XP installed instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2008 21:02:10 GMT
The single biggest problem with installing a program to any type of removable device (external hard disk, NVRAM flash drive, etc) is that many programs in the Windows world stupidly assume that they can write their shared libraries, Registry keys and common config files to the C:\WINDOWS hierarchy and automagically assume that they will always be there. If the programmer who designed and wrote the program's external file/directory schema was dumb enough to do it this way, then the program may not work if it is installed to an external removable device and then transferred to another machine. Since I know nothing about the file/directory schema of NetObjects Fusion, I can't offer any advice in that regard, but Oracle's statement about being able to recover the website is most assuredly true - as long as you remember your FTP login username and login password, you can recover your website with ease. To avoid being locked into a proprietary version-control and storage format (as I assume you are with NetObjects), you can try the open-source Nvu program at www.nvu.com/; it uses the same underlying software and rendering engine as the entire Mozilla family of applications, and should be a breeze to work with. As for your broken laptop, you can purchase an adapter that allows you to connect a 2.5" laptop hard disk to a desktop computer's PATA and power connectors. Once connected, the desktop's OS (Windows, Linux, or whatever) should detect the disk and make the filesystems on it accessible, allowing you to copy whatever you need from the disk to the desktop, and thence to a removable storage device. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 22, 2008 21:27:59 GMT
as long as you remember your FTP login username and login password, you can recover your website with ease. Spot-on!  If you can't, then you have to ask your server and get them to advise you of the username & password. I have used several sites over the years, and am terrible with remembering these! |
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Post by angelislington on Jul 22, 2008 21:35:07 GMT
Top advice, TheOneKEA, and I agree also about bad programming pointing automatically to C:. Hey ho! Colin, I've since had a play, and I was able to specify H: (where H: is where my EHD is) by a tortuous route, but it does indeed work. This was with Paint Shop Pro, so... YMMV. I've also been told of Thinstall which apparently does the trick too. I'd say, either way, if your laptop is dodgy / your sole PC, then getting an EHD to back stuff up is essential. (Sadly people only really learn this lesson when they've b0rked their pooters and everything disappears... ) Given the size of your USB memory stick/pen drive, you should be able to back everything up onto that AND with luck be able to run NetObjects off it. As for editing HTML files in NetObjects again, any reasonable web editing software should have this functionality - this is based on playing with MS Front Pants, DreamWeaver and CoffeeCup HTML-Editor. Equally, HTML files created in one web editor should be editable by another. PM me if you'd like me to walk you through what I did to get PSP to install on my EHD. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 22, 2008 21:36:17 GMT
Having had a 'play' - the real problem with Net Objects is that it's a html generator. You can [sort of] manipulate or add your own html to a page created in Net Objects, but that's about it. I can write basic html - perhaps I should learn to do it properly and just write it all myself using notepad.....it'd certainly be a damm sight easier in the grand scheme of things ;D ;D |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 22, 2008 21:45:05 GMT
I use Microsoft FrontPage to do all my htm/html work. I have even used Word in the past but would never recommend it..you can save as htm format but FP is meant to be an editor system. However I confess in the past I have used up to three MS programmes to 'convert' photographs to downloadable form, and text to website..in the latter case using WS FTP_LE [now defunct] which acts as an intermediary between your HD and your server. I became quite adept at highlighting and pasting between open files! I have even posted and hosted .doc files as well as .pdf...the latter seems so popular these days for documents. Rather than invest in Adobe Acrobat I bought for £50 or so ScanSoft which enables you to edit .pdf files and save them in other formats.
Best of luck...be interesting to hear how you get on.
Just to remind, as a final thought: it is always possible to directly download and save off a site the text in an online file and then amend and add to them in a suitable html editor. I had to do this once when the server cancelled the FTP protocol and no direct transferance could be made. Even embedded photos can be saved in this way.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2008 22:18:35 GMT
I wouldn't recommend FrontPage as a website creator, as it has a habit of producing sites that only work in Internet Explorer. See www.cglrail.co.uk/ and especially www.cglrail.co.uk/links.htm for a good example of this. You do not need to pay any money at all to create PDF files. There are several free open source PDF creators for windows, linux, mac, etc. One popular method is to set up the PDF writer as a printer, so that you can create a PDF from any application that can print. See www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.aspChris |
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Post by Dmitri on Jul 22, 2008 22:30:36 GMT
Yes, I can recover the html - but the html isn't transferrable back into the Net Objects program..........or is it? hmmmm..... There is an Import Existing Site option in NOF (at least in version 11). as long as you remember your FTP login username and login password, you can recover your website with ease ...or simply download everything over HTTP using Teleport Pro or suchlike. |
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bowchurch
The next train on Platform 2 is the District Line to...
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Post by bowchurch on Jul 22, 2008 22:38:18 GMT
As we all know, Dave duilt the main site using Net Objects; it's a good website building program and I too used it to create my District line photo site. The only trouble with it is, as we've both found, if yer computer goes South the website is lost forever (hence why Daves main site & my District line site are both dead in the water). Have you tried pulling the disk and plugging it in elsewhere? Just because you PC isn't working doesn't necessarily mean the data is lost from it. You may be able to pull the hard disk out and depending how brave you are either a) put the disk inside a different PC in addition to the disk already in there and see if you can access it that way (the difficult option) or b) You can buy an external box to mount the drive into which you can then plug into the USB port of a different PC (the safer option). While complete hard disk failures do happen, they are comparitively rare these days so you might be in luck accessing it via a different machine - even if the original machine is kaput. |
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Post by District Dave on Jul 23, 2008 8:48:11 GMT
As we all know, Dave duilt the main site using Net Objects; it's a good website building program and I too used it to create my District line photo site. The only trouble with it is, as we've both found, if yer computer goes South the website is lost forever (hence why Daves main site & my District line site are both dead in the water). Have you tried pulling the disk and plugging it in elsewhere? Just because you PC isn't working doesn't necessarily mean the data is lost from it. You may be able to pull the hard disk out and depending how brave you are either a) put the disk inside a different PC in addition to the disk already in there and see if you can access it that way (the difficult option) or b) You can buy an external box to mount the drive into which you can then plug into the USB port of a different PC (the safer option). While complete hard disk failures do happen, they are comparitively rare these days so you might be in luck accessing it via a different machine - even if the original machine is kaput. In my case it was actually a motherboard that failed. On replacement and 'firing up' for the first time, it unilaterally reformatted the hard disk - no warning - nothing! I found many others who'd been caught out on a forum but it ws too late by then . The problem I have is that much of the style of the site was my own creation - rather than one of the templates. The text is easy enough to deal with - I can simply cut and paste - but the photo galleries will take a vast amount of time trying to trace back all the photos to the originals etc. and I simply suffer from lack of time. Eventually I plan to rebuild the whole thing - possibly with a whoole new look - and to host it on a paid for server - especilly if I can get some sponsorship. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 23, 2008 10:25:53 GMT
There is an Import Existing Site option in NOF (at least in version 11). There is indeed - all I get though is "unable to contact www...." |
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Post by District Dave on Jul 23, 2008 10:46:15 GMT
Tried that - didn't work for me either.
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 23, 2008 12:35:08 GMT
In fact, it is not lost: if you can download and upload files, you can do everything you want (it may be slow and tedious manual process, but still possible nonetheless - it is how I 'supported' a web-site on my previous job). It is lost if the computer refuses to work - unless I pay £100 to have the hard drive recovered. Bottom line: can you be more specific about the problems you've encountered? I've never used NetObjects Fusion, but I can try and (possibly) give some advice. PM or Email me if you want. Basically I ran the Net Objects CD, and when it asked where to save it, I selected the memory stick. It refused to continue saying that the file type .nod wasn't recognised. In any case, just after I posted the opening post of this thread, the laptop I was using (was babysitting at my mates house) - the one holding the bulk of my new website - froze then went into a constant start up cycle. It has done it before and the only option was to use the recovery master CD. I took it to my local PC world, to see if they help get it going again without resorting to the recovery CD - the upshot was £60 to essentially do what I could do myself for nothing (recovery) or they could attempt to rescue the hard drive for £100 (not forgetting I'd need to buy an external HD there & then . It's an old laptop running XP, and subject to backing up my website, I was considering getting a new one - so I've now decided to do just that! Impulse buying and all that has seen me get a new laptop (from Comet!) for £340. I'm now on it and just getting used to the differences with Vista..... I now don't have the money to pursue the external HD route this month - so plenty of time for more discussion if anyone else wants to add anything?....... Cripes, I certainly wouldn't do anything serious on a laptop. They are okay for what they are intended for as long as you don't want to use them like desktops. I only use my laptops for occasional light duty these days as they are fraught with problems usually associated with overheating and hanging extras on the USB ports doesn't help. I had nothing but trouble with my very expensive Toshiba Satellite A60 and I'll never buy another laptop from that company. My older Packard Bell Centrino lasted several years before the HDD gave out. I have bought a lot of stuff from PC World from parts to PCs but I would never let them touch a PC of mine, I do all my own repairs and if I can't fix the problem I recycle the usable parts into another home built PC. Of course it helps that I collect PCs and have quite a lot of them dating back to the mid 1970s when I first got into computing. My ten penn'worth is to think about an alternative operating system like Linux of which there are many flavours and plenty of free software applications. There are some great distros out there these days which are comaparable to Windows and freely available. I am gradually switching my PCs from XP to various versions of Linux. I run multiple PCs on my LAN and have recently been experimenting using PCs with no hard drives at all. Most relatively modern PCs can be booted and operated from a memory stick but I have been experimenting running Fedora 9 on an 8Gb CF card plugged directly into the IDE port of the motherboard using a cheap little interface card (99p). Solid state knocks HDDs into touch for convenience and I'm sure it won't be long before proper solid state HDDs of decent capacity hit the streets. It isn't that long ago (2000) that I paid £400 for an 8Gb HDD when they first were in the shops and these days I operate several 500Gb external drives and a number of others in the 80Gb to 250Gb range with total storage on my systems having broken the 3Tb barrier about a year ago. For Windows XP applications my choice for the last decade has been the range of applications from Serif of Nottingham, I have the entire suite of programmes including Webplus which is their version of a website building package. I used Net Objects Fusion in its earlier days but I never did like it, however, I have used many website building softwares and they all seem to have particular quirks and niggles so for packages that cost money it is a case of paying your money and taking your choice. These days I have no intention of purchasing any more Windows software as I will not be 'upgrading ' to Vista which I see as quite a retrograde step. Linux can do everything that Windows does and then some and it does many things much better! |
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Post by tubeprune on Jul 23, 2008 16:26:49 GMT
I am rebuilding the Tubeprune website from scratch. It is now registered as tubeprune.com. I am having to move the site as trainweb.org doesn't accept ssi etc. and I want to put in forms and a search facility. It is also my intention to put in a knowledgebase which will record all the information offered by anyone who can contribute to questions raised, especially from this forum. I haven't finished it yet so I haven't advertised it. If anyone would like to help with ideas, photos or articles, please pm me. Here is a test page: www.tubeprune.com/indextest.htmlBeware, most of the links are broken because I haven't done the new pages yet. I use HTML-kit. You have to write all the code yourself but it saves a lot of the excess junk code which you get from Frontpage etc. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 16:35:18 GMT
If the site is just static html (no server side scripts) then you could also use wget to download the entire site. Its a command line tool, but does recursive downloads etc. My suggestion would be to create a new site in NetObjects and leave it blank, then wget your entire site from the online URL into the local folder that was created for your new site. Should take in all about 20 minutes. P.s... as Tubeprune says.. HTML-Kit is awesome, and i believe comes with a WYSIWYG editor now too..  |
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Jul 23, 2008 17:15:33 GMT
Having considered the options - and there has been some helpful stuff in this thread - I've decided I'm sticking with Net Objects. I know how it works, find it easy to use, etc, etc. Net Objects does have a serious drawback in that I could extract the html all day long, but things like site navigation will only be recognised by the Net Objects program. The new website I'm working on is more text based than anything else - so I'll do all the text based stuff first, then I can email the site to other computers (with the program installed) before I add any pictures; with just text, the website will be small enough to not upset any email limits......then if I have any agg in future, I'll have the basis of the site backed up and will just need to add in the images to get it all back proper. It's not the best way of doing it, and it's kinda making things hard for myself - but that's me ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 20:27:21 GMT
May I recommend Dreamweaver as a decent web development application ... not especially cheap but does the job extremely well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2008 23:51:16 GMT
In my case it was actually a motherboard that failed. On replacement and 'firing up' for the first time, it unilaterally reformatted the hard disk - no warning - nothing! I found many others who'd been caught out on a forum but it ws too late by then . ARE U SERIOS?!?!?!?  I have NEVER heard of a motherboard manufacturer stupid enough to include ANY type of unilateral disk-reformatting software in its BIOS before! I sit in awe of such stupidity and can only imagine your shock when you discovered what it was doing... |
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Post by rayb on Jul 24, 2008 6:35:13 GMT
Just a couple of tips;
If anyone is brave enough to want to pull a suspect drive from a laptop out and connect it to a PC, you can buy a caddy as has been stated, or if you don't want that expense you can just buy a cable from Maplin that does the job - full IDE-2.5" IDE+Power. It will mean operating kit with covers open etc, but the lead is about £5.
Someone raised the possibility that laptops don't always offer enough power to external USB drives - the way round this is to use a powered USB hub connected to the laptop and then to plug your accessories into that. These are widely available and take the strain off the computer's supply.
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" (of course pointing out the £100+ ones as being the ones I should look at). I asked them if they were sure cos I didn't wanna spend £70 - £130 on something if it can't do what I want it to. They then said "have you tried a memory stick? 
