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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 19:18:05 GMT
Not so helpful unless you know that the Underground (usually) drives on the left. Most railways in the world drive on the left, even countries where they drive on the right on the roads. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 8, 2009 19:32:04 GMT
District Line trains terminated in platform 2 to allow cross-platform interchange when I was driving, are these to be banished to platform 3 (i.e. walk over footbridge for onward travel) under this scheme? At the beginning and end of the day, when there are less trains about, Districts are generally put into platform 2 - but for the most part, they alternate between platforms 2 & 3 all day long......so the 'circlesmith' won't be creating a new situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 21:50:45 GMT
Is Underground really drives on the left? I'm pretty sure it does that in opposite direction when compared to Moscow Metro or German S-Bahn (which I thought both drive on the left).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 21:53:32 GMT
Not so helpful unless you know that the Underground (usually) drives on the left. Most railways in the world drive on the left, even countries where they drive on the right on the roads. , including the USA, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Russia... and even if they do the average person probably doesn't know. I just don't see any advantage to inner/outer over clockwise/anticlockwise. I'd like to see 'roundabout' symbols added as well for perfect clarity, if at all possible. |
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Post by Dmitri on Mar 8, 2009 22:06:48 GMT
Is Underground really drives on the left? I'm pretty sure it does that in opposite direction when compared to Moscow Metro or German S-Bahn (which I thought both drive on the left). Moscow Metro, just like other railways and roads in xUSSR, drives on the right. So, LU really drives in opposite direction when compared to Moscow Metro  . (I know there are exceptions, but I do not think they are significant) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 23:01:32 GMT
Блин! Stupid me! So what I thought was 'driving on the left' is actually 'driving on the right' ;D Guess that shows that I'm not a driver!  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 8, 2009 23:04:44 GMT
You will see Victoria Line drivers driving on the right sometimes as the ATO equipment is on both sides!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 2:18:46 GMT
You will see Victoria Line drivers driving on the right sometimes as the ATO equipment is on both sides! Driving on the right in this thread is refering to the side of the tracks, not the side of the cab. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 2:21:19 GMT
Most railways in the world drive on the left, even countries where they drive on the right on the roads. , including the USA, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Russia... and even if they do the average person probably doesn't know. I just don't see any advantage to inner/outer over clockwise/anticlockwise. I'd like to see 'roundabout' symbols added as well for perfect clarity, if at all possible. Far more railways drive on the left in comparison to driving left on the roads. |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Mar 9, 2009 2:45:06 GMT
Is Underground really drives on the left? I'm pretty sure it does that in opposite direction when compared to Moscow Metro or German S-Bahn (which I thought both drive on the left). When I lived in Vienna,the mainline railways used the left-hand rule,which was the rule for the roads (in Eastern Austria only!) until anschluss with Germany in 1938. The street tramways,however,continued to drive on the left until they were later converted to right-hand running. The Wiener Stadtbahn local railways stuck to the left until conversion to U-bahn in the 80s..... PS:If anyone ever visits Vienna,the Tramway Museum Depot is fantastic,and was free when I last went there! www.wiener-tramwaymuseum.orgEdit:It's now 3 Euros to get in,but still well worth it! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 10:39:03 GMT
Announced this morning in Metro - the line will be called the Circle line despite the "handle".
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Post by DrOne on Mar 9, 2009 14:26:46 GMT
I don't think that will be too much to erm.. handle. As long as the trains are described appropriately:
Clockwise:
Hammersmith-Aldgate: Circle/Barking
Aldgate-Edgware rd: Edgware rd
Anticlockwise:
Edgware rd-Aldgate: Circle
Aldgate-Hammersmith:Hammersmith
I just hope there will be enough of an increase in reliability to make up for the 10min gaps between Liverpool St and Whitechapel/Tower Hill.
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Post by trainopd78 on Mar 9, 2009 19:33:10 GMT
I just hope there will be enough of an increase in reliability to make up for the 10min gaps between Liverpool St and Whitechapel/Tower Hill. And to make up for the loss of almost a third of services between High Street Ken and Edgware road, and AIUI, over a 50% loss of services between Earl's court and High Street Kensington. I can see these routes getting rediculously busy. Earl's Court to Notting Hill gate is notoriously busy at the best of times. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 20:31:00 GMT
I just hope there will be enough of an increase in reliability to make up for the 10min gaps between Liverpool St and Whitechapel/Tower Hill. And to make up for the loss of almost a third of services between High Street Ken and Edgware road, and AIUI, over a 50% loss of services between Earl's court and High Street Kensington. I can see these routes getting rediculously busy. Earl's Court to Notting Hill gate is notoriously busy at the best of times. Indeed. I have had no response to my e-mail, not even an acknowledgement. Time to apply a little more pressure, I think. |
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Post by citysig on Mar 9, 2009 20:57:11 GMT
To take the simplistic view, you have an 8-minute (actually 8½ minute) booked service until December. How many times between now and December will the service run every 8 (½) minutes.
When the new timetable comes in, if everything goes to plan, how many times will we hit the published 10-minute frequency?
Quite often trains on todays timetable are cancelled for service recovery giving you a 16/17-minute gap in some areas. If reliability is improved, hopefully this will not be necessary.
The doubts have been aired, but the timetable (as long as it works crew relief-wise) then reliability and overall service freqency will improve.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 11:45:31 GMT
The doubts have been aired, but the timetable (as long as it works crew relief-wise) then reliability and overall service freqency will improve. ....especially if you live between Hammersmith and Edgware Road !  ..... but not anywhere else ! It just means a cancellation may leave you with a 20 min gap .... or a 40 min gap to Barking ! (Does the Hammersmith & City LIA have the ability to make a long line PA to Barking pl3 ?) If the suggested revised service to Upminster occurs, you'll only be better off if at present more than every other train is routenely cancelled ... which it isn't. I can't see anything proposed actually improving reliability on the Circle, but it will now drag the H&C and District down with it ! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 12:11:25 GMT
or a 40 min gap to Barking ! E-r-r, I thought that all H&C trains will now go to Barking? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 10, 2009 12:17:58 GMT
Yes correct. All H&C trains will go to Plaistow/Barking and some to West Ham in emergency (when the siding is built!). This is a mistake. I know Whitechapel is being rebuilt, but 3 platforms should be provided. I think there is space for 3 tracks, a large island for the x-rail escalators and an extra platform for terminating H&C trains.
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Post by 21146 on Mar 10, 2009 12:19:59 GMT
I just hope there will be enough of an increase in reliability to make up for the 10min gaps between Liverpool St and Whitechapel/Tower Hill. And to make up for the loss of almost a third of services between High Street Ken and Edgware road, and AIUI, over a 50% loss of services between Earl's court and High Street Kensington. I can see these routes getting rediculously busy. Earl's Court to Notting Hill gate is notoriously busy at the best of times. Esp. with football at Chelsea and the District Line shut (yet again) through the central area. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 12:53:31 GMT
E-r-r, I thought that all H&C trains will now go to Barking? Nope, Barking drops from a H&C every 16 mins to one every 20. Whitechapel reversers are extended to Plaistow, so that section gets an increased H&C serving (off peak) from every 16 to every 10mins. H&C trains thus alternate one to Plaistow and one to Barking. (so departures from Hammersmith every 5 mins will be : Circle / Plaistow / Circle / Barking then repeat). The new siding at West Ham, when built will be double ended, initially it will not be timetabled for use, we are told, but will be for curtailments (we are also told it must be in place before Whitechapel is reduced to a two platform layout (with emergency reversing points at both ends)). |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 10, 2009 12:59:34 GMT
The problem with West Ham is that it is too far up the line. It's only a stop south of Plaistow. Whitechapel is right in the mix and I think more useful for short working. Aldgate isn't an option which leaves Moorgate!
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Post by citysig on Mar 10, 2009 13:16:50 GMT
It just means a cancellation may leave you with a 20 min gap .... or a 40 min gap to Barking ! (Does the Hammersmith & City LIA have the ability to make a long line PA to Barking pl3 ?) The reliability will mean that on the trains side, more trains will be in a position to have regular maintenance. This should cut down on train-side failures leading to cancellations. On the timetable side, if it works out, then the service could recover easier without so many cancellations (that's the theory anyway) Then it's just down to train operator availability. As for the H&C LIA, no they can't make long-line PAs to Barking (in fact not to anywhere now) but they do regularly update the District LIA on our service information. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 13:24:28 GMT
The problem with West Ham is that it is too far up the line. It's only a stop south of Plaistow. Whitechapel is right in the mix and I think more useful for short working. Aldgate isn't an option which leaves Moorgate! Aldgate is an option to turn c stock trains in times of disruption, the outer rail platform sees trains reverse early every morning and late evening. I'll be surprised if there is no emergency crossover west of Whitechapel for service reversal when it's remodled. |
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Post by citysig on Mar 10, 2009 14:41:52 GMT
Currently, due to the levels of service on the District, we basically avoid reversing at Whitechapel at any time other than when we have booked reversers. Much as Whitechapel is a handy reversing point, we sort of work "without it" already.
A general rule of thumb is, with average late running within the peak, Barkings reverse Plaistow, and Plaistows generally reverse at Moorgate or do something more "clever" depending on other services and crews ;D
I use Aldgate a fair amount post peak. A late-running Met that reverses short at Moorgate can be covered equally by a late-running Whitechapel reversing in the Met's platform at Aldgate.
Anyway, enough of this, before you all think you can do our job ;D But the loss of Whitechapel or any reversing point, whilst a step backwards, can be lived with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 16:34:17 GMT
My fear is the H&C has more scope to pick up late running on the Plaistows than it would on the Whitechapels. Trains regularly come back off the District 20 late as it is.
I foresee an increase in trains bunching which will knacker Hammersmith on the return trips.
Whats the step-back plan? Hammer and Edgware Road, or just Hammer? Peaks or all day?
Step-backs and constant reforms are the only way I can envisage this working. Those DMTs who went to Hammersmith for the quiet life will be in for a pleasant surprise!!
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Post by citysig on Mar 10, 2009 20:54:42 GMT
At present, from what I have seen anyway, there will be no stepping-back of drivers.
I haven't seen much in the way of rosters though, so that could be lurking somewhere, and to be honest some of the ambitious plans the timetable has could certainly involve stepping-back.
What I do know is that reliefs will be centred more on Hammersmith and Barking than on Edgware Road. Edgware Road will become more or less what Hammersmith is now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 21:38:36 GMT
What I do know is that reliefs will be centred more on Hammersmith and Barking than on Edgware Road. Edgware Road will become more or less what Hammersmith is now. An extreme turn depot? |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 10, 2009 21:48:03 GMT
What I do know is that reliefs will be centred more on Hammersmith and Barking than on Edgware Road. Edgware Road will become more or less what Hammersmith is now. An extreme turn depot? Hmm..... 1½ extra minutes for one less platform (discounting dwell time) per direction. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 23:40:35 GMT
I'll be surprised if there is no emergency crossover west of Whitechapel for service reversal when it's remodled. The diagrams show reversing pointwork at both ends of the remodled two platforms at Whitechapel. But with any reversers delaying any through service the points will no doubt be as useful as those at Bromley-By-Bow (probably less so, given the tight speed limits surounding Whitechapel) ... how often is a train curtailed there !!! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 11, 2009 1:24:52 GMT
Yeah quite! And least we forget all the problems Edgware Road is expected to bring....
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..... but not anywhere else !
