Circles to Go

The only cross-section or similar image of Baker Street I can find is this one (courtesy of London Reconnections), but that unfortunately only goes down as far as SSL level.
London Connections, and See How They Run have nothing about Baker Street station, and I can't even find plans of the station on Google images.

Once you've reached King's Cross, why not terminate them at Moorgate?

I might add this to my disertation, I am visting london on 27/28 january, and i will be carrying out a survey on passenger numbers at Edgware road, Paddington etc.

I think your idea is better than the current plan, but I don't think T-cup is nessacary. Couldn't extra H&C trains run between Hammersmith & Edgware Road, and some Wimblewares terminate at High Street Kensington? And, if you need a way to get Circles back on time after a delay, you could have them wait at Aldgate (or Gloucester Road on the outer rail) for a few minutes. Once all the C and D stock is replaced, you could change the services a lot more than at the moment, if you stopped using the existing line names, and run it as the 'subsurface line'. Of course, you would have to use different names for different services on maps so the passengers are less likely to be confused.

If you'll indulge me, I've taken amershamsi's diagram and had a play...

random.jamie-thompson.co.uk/Northern Circle.gif[/img]

.. Basic concept is to segregate the Met/H&C and the Circle.

By adding terminating bays at KX, both the inner and outer rail can terminate at a station that's likely to appreciate the empty cars more than Aldgate, and in more importantly, the inner rail has somewhere convenient to terminate.

Junctions become grade separated, platforms rebuilt to ease interchange, etc.

The concept is that the H&C would run from Hammersmith (or further afield...but that's another story) all-stations to Baker St., and then both it and the Met skipping as many as possible before the H&C turns off to take over the line to Enfield via Bethnal Green (though tunnelled as much as required until it gets there as the whole point is to relieve the Liverpool St. throat), with the Met running out to Barking, etc.

...but the "fast" services would definitely need to serve KX & Farringdon, for the interchanges if nothing else. The difficulty I have is working out where the line of being reasonable lies between running faster but making people cross over to a more frequent Circle service, vs. serving more of the major stations. Thinking about it, I suppose having passengers take a Circle at Euston a single stop to KX to optionally change onto a fast train to L.S. isn't so bad if they want to shave their times. It'd divide up the loads nicely too. The same goes for the other major interchanges...there's just so many of them...so which do you skip?

...as you may have deduced form above, the line between Moorgate and Liverpool St. is the line to take the H&C off the Circle and out to Enfield. The inspiration came from the fact that Liverpool St used to have 4 Metropolitan platforms, the two through lines in the middle, the south bay, and a long-gone northern through platform into the main station (that apparently is a staff canteen now). I believe the through line was removed when the line was extended to Aldgate. I think the idea is sound in concept though, and sending the H&C out that way would free up platforms for other outer-surburban services.

There seems to be enough crossovers to the west of Edgware Road. I don't think another one would be needed.

What about remodelling South Kensington as a terminus for the Circle Line? Two outer platforms could be the through lines and an island in the middle could give two platforms for reversing. It is the only station I can think of with some extra space that is 'outside'.

It'd have to have a greater frequency then 30tph, as the number of people changing would cause crowd problems otherwise. The circle surely can deal with some intermingeling; its just the fact that a train can't be dumped and over taken on route that has the knock on effect?

I doubt that. It is intentional that in my plan two of the worst crowding spots have 2 interchange stations - to split the number of people changing.
Plus in the areas where tunnels will have to be enlarged, I think grade-separated junctions can be built - which could lead to cross-platform interchange at Edgware Road and Tower Hill.


I think that system of 4 lines using same two circular tracks becomes unmanageable even after minor problems (sick passenger delays District train that then delays Circle train that in turn causes delay for Met train which results in severe overcrowding on H&C train ahead which causes loading/unloading delays at Aldgate East delaying yet another District train which misses its window at Minories junction thus delaying yet another Circle train (I can go on with this for hours ;D )).


No depot reconfigurations necessary at all! I'm not suggesting to physically disconnect Circle line, so its trains can be stabled whenever practical (Hammersmith or Neasden, etc).

i know there was a proposal to extending the wimbledon - edgware road service through to barking.

has anyone got a map or route diagram to show this?

It is possible to send WB Districts through Gloucester Road platform 2:
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=district&action=display&thread=9826

And since they put in those ineffective new Peltier cab air-con units, it's dead easy to take the skin off your knuckles changing the blind!

The Early morning trains which come out of Hammersmith depot and Barking sidings show Circle Line from Hammersmith and Barking now, so I see no problem here.