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Post by angelislington on Jun 18, 2008 22:26:42 GMT
Hello folks,
What's the distance between the top of the trains & the tunnel? Obv I know this prob depends on the particular stock we're talking about, but just wondering what it roughly is.
Also wondering if the sub-surface lines tend to have 'tall' tunnels (compared to the deep-levels) their whole length, or if there are sections which are comparable to the d-l tunnels. Having been at pretty much all of the s-s stations at one time or another, it always looks as though the tunnels are as 'commodious' [1] as the platform areas.
Ta!
[1] yeah, I've just been reading some old books with reviews of the earliest stations, all the commentators like this word!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 18, 2008 23:21:41 GMT
Regarding the deep level lines, the following photo from Hendon Central should illustrate the clearances. (click for a larger, higher quality version) I'll have a look through my collection for any comparable photos from the sub-surface lines. Edit: I don't have anything useful from the SSL, but I shall endeavour to correct this when I'm out and about tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 0:06:18 GMT
Fffffffffffffffffflaming ada, thats tight! Won't be getting any chav scum surfing the roof of those chariots then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 6:40:31 GMT
Fffffffffffffffffflaming ada, thats tight! Won't be getting any chav scum surfing the roof of those chariots then. I'm half-tempted to say, "Unfortunately". I believe we were told during training that a single line tube tunnel is approximately 12 feet wide, and that the cess is 9 inches. I remember on our first day of stock training, three of us were in the front of a train with one of the trainers, going between Arnos Grove and Oakwood. I'd done the trip on the front quite a few times before, since that was my old working area, but one of the other trainees had never been in the front cab of tube stock. (I think she'd been on the District once.) As we approached the tunnel mouth to Southgate, she exclaimed that we'd never fit in there. *g*
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Post by angelislington on Jun 19, 2008 9:50:52 GMT
That is a snug fit indeed! Thanks, Chris, what a fab photo!
9" does indeed look to be about right. I can imagine, UG, that it would be a little freaky going into a tunnel for the first time!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 11:37:35 GMT
The tunnels on the District line vary a lot in size and shape, but there's usually quite a large clearance. I think the Edgware Road branch has some of the tightest ones on the District.
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Post by ruislip on Jun 19, 2008 14:22:00 GMT
The tunnels on the District line vary a lot in size and shape, but there's usually quite a large clearance. I think the Edgware Road branch has some of the tightest ones on the District. Is that a reason D stock can't run to Edgware Rd? I know all about the platform lengths at certain stations on this branch.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 19, 2008 14:41:27 GMT
Platform lengths are one reason - another is Edgware Road's track circuits and point locations; they are only big enough to cope with a train of C stock length.
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Post by angelislington on Jun 19, 2008 15:39:41 GMT
But in decades past, Dissie trains could run there, yes?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 19, 2008 15:42:40 GMT
They do now; just those that aren't D stock.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 18:16:32 GMT
when the worst has happened and a D has gone to edgware road it has to reverse east of the station this was done 2 years ago at easter when the wrong signal was lowered at HSK ED23rt3 and accepted but when tried to reverse via ED12 the points failed so the decision was for the train to carry upto edgware road but thats the only time i have known for it to happen
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Post by SE13 on Jun 19, 2008 21:25:15 GMT
To be honest, it's always amazed me when hurtling through those tunnels how the trains never hit the sides, especially if you look at the carriage behind! More than likely more of an optical illusion as they appear to wobble so much, and that the speed in the tunnels seems greater.
So you put that to the back of your mind, then watch the train you have just alighted hurtle off down the tunnel and wonder how it all fitted through!
It is (for me) one of the glories of travelling The Tube. Designed so many years ago, and given modern technology, I'll wager it wouldn't even be anywhere near that tight! Yet it's stood the test of time, and passed with colours!
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Post by Chris M on Jun 19, 2008 22:40:42 GMT
I did try and get a photo similar to this on the SSR network today, but I didn't venture west of Bow Road and non of the photos I took there worked for this purpose. I'll try and remember next time I'm at a suitable location.
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Post by max on Jun 20, 2008 3:59:11 GMT
So, if, say, 40 people all on one side of the train simultaneously jumped from one side of the car to the other at a strategic point on the network where clearances are very tight, could they get the car to hit the tunnel wall?
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Post by maxtube on Jun 20, 2008 8:39:38 GMT
So, if, say, 40 people all on one side of the train simultaneously jumped from one side of the car to the other at a strategic point on the network where clearances are very tight, could they get the car to hit the tunnel wall? I'd expect so. Once a ferry capsized when everybody ran to one side
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 20, 2008 11:28:40 GMT
That is a snug fit indeed! Thanks, Chris, what a fab photo! 9" does indeed look to be about right. I can imagine, UG, that it would be a little freaky going into a tunnel for the first time! Mmm! I can assure you that its quite an adrenalin rush being in a tube tunnel with a train hurtling towards you, been there and done that on the Northern, Central and Picc lines. H&S these days has outlawed what were once normal traffic hours engineering activities 20 years ago. To access some areas in traffic hours we often chased a train into a tube tunnel and then when we wanted to return to the platform we waited for a train to pass and then took a brisk walk back in the few seconds that the station starter was automatically maintained at danger.
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 20, 2008 22:51:00 GMT
Hello folks, Also wondering if the sub-surface lines tend to have 'tall' tunnels (compared to the deep-levels) their whole length, or if there are sections which are comparable to the d-l tunnels. Having been at pretty much all of the s-s stations at one time or another, it always looks as though the tunnels are as 'commodious' [1] as the platform areas. The original Metropolitan tunnels from Paddington to Moorgate were built to accommodate the wide gauge tracks for the Great Western Railway. At 28'6" they are wider than the 25' of the later Circle extension District tunnels. The favoured construction was a an elliptical brick arch roof over brick side walls. Where there was insufficient depth below the surface the tunnels were of brick side walls with cast iron beams and shallower brick jack arches.
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 21, 2008 12:40:17 GMT
So, if, say, 40 people all on one side of the train simultaneously jumped from one side of the car to the other at a strategic point on the network where clearances are very tight, could they get the car to hit the tunnel wall? That is why the kinematic profile of the train used to assess clearances. Though extreme cases could cause problems but it would a matter of risk assessment. If the risk is too much to accept then close the line until the risk is reduced to an acceptable level. Question of my own - what kind of testing regime or configuration is employed on the test trains loaded with weights? I assume the aim is more to test the performance of the train rather than clearances?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2008 19:11:54 GMT
To be honest, it's always amazed me when hurtling through those tunnels how the trains never hit the sides, especially if you look at the carriage behind! More than likely more of an optical illusion as they appear to wobble so much, and that the speed in the tunnels seems greater. I've been in the cab on the Picc a couple of times going through the central area and it twists and turns a lot. Every time you approach a tight curve, it appears that the tunnel is narrowing and that the train won't fit!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2008 22:15:30 GMT
I've been in the cab on the Picc a couple of times going through the central area and it twists and turns a lot. Every time you approach a tight curve, it appears that the tunnel is narrowing and that the train won't fit! There are definitely some fun bits! One of the better comparisons I can come up with is it's a bit like being on an enclosed water slide - all you can see is the next twist ahead of you, and that's that! Someone had tripped out the headlights on our train the other day, and we made it to Bounds Green before realising what the problem was... during the Southgate stretch I'd simply assumed my eyes were having more trouble than usual adjusting. It made for a very eerie feeling, because leaving Southgate all I could see was the signal up ahead, and it looked as though we weren't moving at all for quite some time.
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Post by tubeprune on Jun 22, 2008 6:45:54 GMT
To be honest, it's always amazed me when hurtling through those tunnels how the trains never hit the sides, especially if you look at the carriage behind! More than likely more of an optical illusion as they appear to wobble so much, and that the speed in the tunnels seems greater. I've been in the cab on the Picc a couple of times going through the central area and it twists and turns a lot. Every time you approach a tight curve, it appears that the tunnel is narrowing and that the train won't fit! There have been occasions in the past when drivers who took a liberal view of the South Kensington 20mph restriction WB had a little brush with the tunnel wall.
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 22, 2008 15:28:22 GMT
Not knowing the details but when the 92TS was introduced the flanges of the tunnel rings were ground down to improve clearance in some areas.
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