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Post by happybunny on Jun 12, 2008 14:15:41 GMT
I have noticed that on LUL tracks (for example the District lines above ground) there is lots of "mess" ... i.e. loads of cables on a rack either side on the tracks! Loads of pipes etc as well... however on the NR side, down to Richmond or Wimbledon this is very very minimal ! Maybe one pipe or cable and sometimes nothing, just the tracks..
Why is this? Is it because all of the NR stuff is buried underground on there sections... but LUL just have it all above ground shoved on cable racks etc? Or maybe a lot of it on LUL is obsolete equipment that could be removed?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Jun 12, 2008 14:50:30 GMT
Doubt its obsolete. NR tend to have their stuff in concrete troughs by the lineside. As to whether the amount is comparable, I couldn't say.
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mrfs42
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Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 12, 2008 14:58:55 GMT
NR will always duct/bury cables for preference.
You can't do that in Tunnel - once there was the standard for all cables to be suspended on brackets in tube then the surface lines followed the same standard. After all, it might not look pretty but the access for the maintenance is far easier than digging around in the mud and wet filth.
I've often thought that as there needed to be an air main to all parts of the LU network - even all the way out to Ongar for one solitary trainstop it was actually an inspired thought in the SE Department to use the air main to actually carry the cable brackets. If you look carefully (in places) roughly between every other post in the ground that supports the air main there will be a free hanging bracket that carries the cable - a useful economy in hole-digging.
I also understand that there is a positive asset identifying programme with regard to redundant cables in particular - this has been going on for years. I only noticed this recently when a trade mag was extolling the virtues of a thermally printed asset tag, with the ink embedded in the plastic. The embeded ink rendered the label much less susceptible to the vagaries of underground muck!
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 21, 2008 12:56:35 GMT
NR will always duct/bury cables for preference. I've often thought that as there needed to be an air main to all parts of the LU network - even all the way out to Ongar for one solitary trainstop it was actually an inspired thought in the SE Department to use the air main to actually carry the cable brackets. If you look carefully (in places) roughly between every other post in the ground that supports the air main there will be a free hanging bracket that carries the cable - a useful economy in hole-digging. much less susceptible to the vagaries of underground muck! Interesting. If the air main was intentionally turned into a load carrying structure then it become a joint responsility with the civils department. From what I gather joint responsibility on LU has historically been a challenge. Also why does the mention of moving cable infrastructure on LU equate to writing a blank cheque? |
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mrfs42
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Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 21, 2008 15:58:09 GMT
Air main installed and maintained by Signals; only used as a carrying structure for signalling cable. I used 'economy' to mean 'digging less holes'.  |
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 21, 2008 16:46:53 GMT
Just wondering. The Signals Chief Engineer may have difficulty in accepting responsibility that brackets are in good structural condition or for the addition of more cables? It doesn't have to fall down but only to encroach into the loading gauge.
BTW The statement above is more of a reflection of the kind of thinking that is endemic of LU and the Railways from my experience. It's not about a common sense approach but of a "system of competency". These days a license is required to sharpen a pencil or failing that responsibility is passed up the chain. ;D
My mention of cost was more a general comment. A project I was working on involved moving a few metres of cables and signalling air main. We were quoted very large sums of money...
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mrfs42
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Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 22, 2008 20:30:08 GMT
These days a license is required to sharpen a pencil or failing that responsibility is passed up the chain. ;D Tell me about it! ;D Trying to find (  cheap ) independent verifiers for even the simplest circuits and mechanical locking alterations is an absolute pain |
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Post by ducatisti on Jun 23, 2008 12:10:53 GMT
From when I've seen works on NR lines, they do seem to have a fair bit of spaghetti they stick in their ducts. I should imagine also, they are somewhat self-clearing as you'd use the old cable to pull the new one through?
I note on the upper reaches of the Tallyllyn the danglers appear to have the upper hand over the buriers - anyone we know?
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jun 24, 2008 20:36:39 GMT
These days a license is required to sharpen a pencil or failing that responsibility is passed up the chain. We're not there yet. Sharpening pencils is just about outside the scope of a licence, but not far... ;D Mainly due to the levels of correlation and testing involved. What normally happens is a shed load of anomalies are discovered which you're forced to investigate, and then either the anomalies take forever or the money runs out. Or both. I worked on one cable diversion job where we didn't run a single cable in over two years, before the project got stopped. |
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