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Post by happybunny on Jun 8, 2008 16:51:36 GMT
OK I was thinking today, as we know LUL (or Metronet to LUL's specifications) have installed dot matrix screens at lots of stations where it is not possible to put them to use.... examples that come to mind are Stamford Brook, Upminster Bridge, Dagenham East...
As I understand it, it is the signalling system that prevents these dot-matrix screens being used as they are supposed to be. They usually just display a clock (sometimes showing the wrong time!) and the line and direction of travel (i.e. "District Line : Westbound Trains).
Now I imagine that these screens will not come into use until that area is re-signalled, or similar.. which could be many many years for some sites ! (apologies if I have got this wrong)
So why on earth, spend millions of £'s installing technology at station.. that wont be able to be used for years when they will be old! Why not just wait until they have the technology in place to use the screens, then spend the money buying modern ones!
I think it is just another example of LUL's money wasting tactics...
Also, at Stamford brook they have one on the Piccadilly platform (I think it is Stamford brook) westbound... I could understand this if on a train approaching it flashed up "WARNING THROUGH TRAIN APPROACHING.. STAND BACK" or similar, or if it came up with the trains destination if the signaller required it to stop (i.e. the recent engineering work where Dist was suspended and Picc ran making additional stops, or District is diverted onto the fast (informing of platform change or similar))... but all it displays is the time! What a waste of money....
And at stations on the East end of the District, (obviously they have ran out of money) they have only put screens on the WB platforms.... not the EB.. surely it makes more sense to have a screen on a platform where trains actually stop, than one on a platform where trains very very rarely stop and that doesn't work!
Basically if LUL have no way of making these screens work, they should have waited until they do before purchasing them..
It reminds me of the connect project, when it all started they purchased computer screens for the dispatcher units, we had one at EAB.. obviously the project came late but they had already purchased the equipment for the stations/depots etc... and it was a massive huge non-flat-screen monitor... of course when connect finally happened this was severely out of date... and was scrapped and newer equipment purchased to replace!
It is just crazy!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2008 17:27:13 GMT
What I think is totally ridiculous, is where DMI's have been installed at a station where the train can only go one stop, South Wimbledon is a prime example, southbound!
1. Morden 2 mins
2. Morden 5 mins
3. Morden 8 mins
4. Morden 12 mins
Is that really necessary?
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 8, 2008 17:56:25 GMT
<deep intake of breath> Weeeel, it's probably fulfilling some sort of directive in keeping the passenger informed - ok, in the case of South Wimbledon it would look like a case of 'over-egging-the-pudding', but these things are probably part of the 'establishment level' of equipment for each station.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2008 18:18:02 GMT
It's actually simpler than that - Metronet is installing the screens now so as to avoid having to install them later, when the TD component of the signalling system IS upgraded. The move is designed to avoid having to rip the stations apart twice - once to refurbish them, and again to install the screens.
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Post by 21146 on Jun 8, 2008 18:53:15 GMT
12 mins? YOU were lucky!
At Bow Road WB it's never more than 2 minutes away despite what the uninitiated imagined when the 1960s "black glass" TD was taken down and replaced by a new fangled DMI as part of Metronet's 18-month-odd refurbishment. As has been mentioned before on another site, the new board is sited further to the east, thus no longer visible from much of the WB platform now and, during the short period of tamden running with the earlier TD, actually lights up later so gives less advance warning!
(And you try telling that to the young people today, and they wouldn't believe yer...)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2008 18:57:04 GMT
The times given were only examples, to show the pointless nature of that DMI... There should just be an enamel sign which says simply TRAINS TO MORDEN ONLY FROM THIS PLATFORM.
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Post by 21146 on Jun 8, 2008 19:05:30 GMT
The times given were only examples, to show the pointless nature of that DMI... There should just be an enamel sign which says simply TRAINS TO MORDEN ONLY FROM THIS PLATFORM. The point I find so irritating is the way passenger information is still being constrained by early-60s technology. I mean LU put up a new DMI which people think will offer the same level of service as, say, the Northern or Central Lines, but in fact will only over show the maximum of 2 mins because that's where the nearest IMR is - 2 mins away at Bromley. I can't believe it's beyond the wit of LU to improve on this without waiting for the fabled SSR resignalling programme. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 8, 2008 19:23:24 GMT
Sadly, "passenger information" appears to be more concentrated on winding the passenger up with announcements about Oyster and good services, rather than giving us actual information.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2008 19:43:01 GMT
What I think is totally ridiculous, is where DMI's have been installed at a station where the train can only go one stop, South Wimbledon is a prime example, southbound! 1. Morden 2 mins 2. Morden 5 mins 3. Morden 8 mins 4. Morden 12 mins Is that really necessary? Although having the destination may not be necessary, the times are. At the station I use most often - East Putney - there is no indicator on the westbound platform. Although I know that all trains from that platform will be going to Wimbledon, it would be useful to know how long I have to wait. I can see their reasoning for doing this. If they only have the money to put indicators on one platform then it would be better to have them on the WB because there are more possible destinations going west than there are going east. |
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Post by 21146 on Jun 8, 2008 21:54:26 GMT
Sadly, "passenger information" appears to be more concentrated on winding the passenger up with announcements about Oyster and good services, rather than giving us actual information. How true and we are all sick of this endless loop of repetitive recorded announcements, discussed many times, but no chance of anyone turning them off. And now "This train is being held at a red signal...." (but why?); "This train is being held to provide a more regular service.." (ah OK, delay my train as well). This pre-recorded stuff is just like the "You are being held in a queue...your call is important to us..." call centre stuff. No-one believes it, wants it, and the sooner LU realises the better. Until then, crank-up the I-Pod. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2008 22:38:08 GMT
im sure these new signs are in with the station contracts but dont quote me on that
regarding bow road its got nothing to do with the fact the imr is 2mins away its to do with the dot matrix sign gets its info from the old equipment which used to power the old light box which is in bow road off the e/b platform this does get the info from bromley by bow but only when the train has passed the starting signal at bromley by bow so basically the new signs just piggy back (wired up) to the old equipment and most stations are only 2mins apart so thats the common time you will see when the train enters that section
there is a cable running the whole of the district line to enable for dot matrixs this was put in some point in the late 80's early 90's as every station was going to have them but it was really only central london what actually got them
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Post by 21146 on Jun 9, 2008 9:59:06 GMT
im sure these new signs are in with the station contracts but dont quote me on that regarding bow road its got nothing to do with the fact the imr is 2mins away its to do with the dot matrix sign gets its info from the old equipment which used to power the old light box which is in bow road off the e/b platform this does get the info from bromley by bow but only when the train has passed the starting signal at bromley by bow so basically the new signs just piggy back (wired up) to the old equipment and most stations are only 2mins apart so thats the common time you will see when the train enters that section there is a cable running the whole of the district line to enable for dot matrixs this was put in some point in the late 80's early 90's as every station was going to have them but it was really only central london what actually got them Thanks for sorting that out, but I still can't see why some form of interim DMI system can't be introduced. After all they got Trackernet to work on the DR (generally...) and you can view that all over the world with the right PC connection. How about utilising the D Stock's GPS in some way? I'd much rather know if it's quicker walking to Mile End for a Central Line than listen to endless recorded PA messages which tell me nothing about when the next train will arrive. LU priorities eh? |
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Post by 21146 on Jun 9, 2008 10:01:33 GMT
Slightly veering off-topic but soon they'll be playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons on trains when there's blocking-back, interupted only by the occasional "Your train is being held in a queue..."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 13:31:44 GMT
trackernet is not a great system it has its bad points like no showing points returning to normal until the other route is selected (not in all areas though) this is usually used by signal ops to tell us we have a point failure if a signal does failure when in fact theres nothing with the points
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Post by superteacher on Jun 9, 2008 18:15:17 GMT
Slightly veering off-topic but soon they'll be playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons on trains when there's blocking-back, interupted only by the occasional "Your train is being held in a queue..." ;D ;D ;D Then it will say "your train is being diverted"! How ever did people survive before DMI's? I say that with a hint of sarcasm, because I agree with Art. The service south to Morden runs often enough not to warrant a DMI at South Wimbledon. Yes, it's nice to know, but not essential. |
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Post by Oracle on Jun 9, 2008 18:28:48 GMT
Hounslow West, when rebuilt, had destination indicators which were black boxes with back-lit destinations. This was really a bit OTT as who really cared if the trains was just going to Wood Green instead of Arnos, Oakwood or Cockfosters...it was relevant however for Acton Town, Hyde Park Corner or I suppose Kings Cross..not sure if West Ken was on it. However in the other direction, there was none and there was no need for one. Until T4! Now you have T4, T123 and T5 as possible destinations and there are a lot of passengers who catch the Picc to the airport, and would now appreciate knowing where the train was going. I suppose in theory Hatton Cross would also be a useful destination but not worth bothering with.
When I was last at HW on the EB there was the same box but it looked as the original box had been modified and indeed was not working.
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Post by Colin on Jun 9, 2008 21:29:53 GMT
And now "This train is being held at a red signal...." (but why?) As a driver I'd like to know why as well, but I can't give my passengers a reason if service control refuse to answer radio calls, refuse to do general announcements or simply say "blocking back driver" when they do bother to interact with their drivers. Statement from the department of bleeding obvious: I know we're blocking back, that's why I'm calling you!  As you know full well, being LU staff, drivers are now instructed to make a PA after being at a stand for 30 seconds "even if you don't know the reason why". So until information from service control improves, you'll get "this train is being held at a red signal........." and that's that!  |
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 9, 2008 21:48:26 GMT
this train is being held at a red signal As a passenger, I do not need to be told that a train is being held, and I don't care much about why we are held (I assume there is always a good reason for that). But I am very curious about how long we are going to stay here  . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 21:58:40 GMT
this train is being held at a red signal As a passenger, I do not need to be told that a train is being held, and I don't care much about why we are held (I assume there is always a good reason for that). But I am very curious about how long we are going to stay here . The driver will be curious about the answer to that question as well! I think the point of the "being held at a red signal..." stuff is to reassure the twitchier passengers that this is in fact a routine stop and does not mean that disaster is imminent. |
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Post by c5 on Jun 9, 2008 23:45:13 GMT
Hounslow West, when rebuilt, had destination indicators which were black boxes with back-lit destinations. This was really a bit OTT as who really cared if the trains was just going to Wood Green instead of Arnos, Oakwood or Cockfosters...it was relevant however for Acton Town, Hyde Park Corner or I suppose Kings Cross..not sure if West Ken was on it. However in the other direction, there was none and there was no need for one. Until T4! Now you have T4, T123 and T5 as possible destinations and there are a lot of passengers who catch the Picc to the airport, and would now appreciate knowing where the train was going. I suppose in theory Hatton Cross would also be a useful destination but not worth bothering with. When I was last at HW on the EB there was the same box but it looked as the original box had been modified and indeed was not working. There are now (or should be!) Dot Matrix indicators working west of Osterley and can show: Hounslow Central, Hatton Cross, Heathrow Terminals 4 & 123, Heathrow Terminals 123 and Heathrow Terminals 123 & 5! And there are now some on the EB too! And what's more, they are so high-tech, they can even show Not In Service for an empty or non pax train ;D ;D |
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Post by happybunny on Jun 10, 2008 4:11:21 GMT
I think the point of the "being held at a red signal..." stuff is to reassure the twitchier passengers that this is in fact a routine stop and does not mean that disaster is imminent. And to make sure if a mystery shopper is on-board we get our CSS bonus |
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Post by Oracle on Jun 10, 2008 6:54:08 GMT
Thanks BM! The old boxes at HW EB showed 'SPECIAL'..I think Hatton Cross were the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2008 7:39:13 GMT
And what's more, they are so high-tech, they can even show Not In Service for an empty or non pax train ;D ;D Not as good as the Circle Line boards that show NOT IN SERVICE for a Baker Street Platform 6 terminator. ;D On a related note - used to annoy me personally when the Central Line controllers used SPECIAL instead of NOT IN SERVICE for the engineers trains. General Public can just about understand NOT IN SERVICE, but SPECIAL (all to do with the Colour of the train at service control I was told) |
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Post by c5 on Jun 10, 2008 9:02:22 GMT
And what's more, they are so high-tech, they can even show Not In Service for an empty or non pax train ;D ;D Not as good as the Circle Line boards that show NOT IN SERVICE for a Baker Street Platform 6 terminator. ;D On a related note - used to annoy me personally when the Central Line controllers used SPECIAL instead of NOT IN SERVICE for the engineers trains. General Public can just about understand NOT IN SERVICE, but SPECIAL (all to do with the Colour of the train at service control I was told) Well some places don't even have that luxury, so show a passenger destination! Thanks BM! The old boxes at HW EB showed 'SPECIAL'..I think Hatton Cross were the same. Ah, but special doesn't route at a diverging junction, so trains are put up as a normal destination! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2008 10:31:32 GMT
thats only if the signal op cannot be bothered to push a couple of buttons  |
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Post by c5 on Jun 10, 2008 11:27:42 GMT
thats only if the signal op cannot be bothered to push a couple of buttons Ah.. Let the machines do the work. If it then does it wrong it's an InfraCo fault ;D ;D ;D And no item gets booked to LUL Staff Error. You shouldn't need to press those yellow buttons, that's why they used to be in cupboards! ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2008 10:26:55 GMT
And what's more, they are so high-tech, they can even show Not In Service for an empty or non pax train ;D ;D Not as good as the Circle Line boards that show NOT IN SERVICE for a Baker Street Platform 6 terminator. ;D On a related note - used to annoy me personally when the Central Line controllers used SPECIAL instead of NOT IN SERVICE for the engineers trains. General Public can just about understand NOT IN SERVICE, but SPECIAL (all to do with the Colour of the train at service control I was told) It doesn't seem to matter to me what gets displayed on destination boards, you always get one say "Does the Bristol 1 stop at Bristol" or "what time does the 4 o'clock go!" and of course ultimate confusion for all ticket staff, "can I have a single return please"! ;D |
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Post by Chris M on Jun 18, 2008 11:07:02 GMT
One I head when standing on the dedicated Heathrow Express platforms at Paddington, next to a train that said Heathrow Terminals 1,2,3 and 5 Only, was "Does this train go to Bayswater?"
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Post by angelislington on Jun 18, 2008 22:16:34 GMT
My mate, when he worked at Balham NR, always used to laugh at the numpties who'd come running up and ask 'what platform is the next train from?' and then get huffy when they'd be told 'depends where you're going' |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2008 8:33:13 GMT
Surely the SB TD at South Wimbledon could also display "Not In Service" or possibly even "Terminates Here" on relevant occasions? Yes, Morden is the only stop south of there but trains have been known to terminate at SW and run empty, or of course to pass through if they have developed faults. I think the system is also linked in to the automatic announcer. I know they had these TDs installed at Burnt Oak long before Colindale got them.
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