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Post by angelislington on Jun 4, 2008 20:05:06 GMT
Now, I know us gurlies like our colours but I would like to know when it was decided which colour should belong with which line. I know when they settled, frinstance, on red for the Central, but why? Does anyone know?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 5, 2008 0:15:18 GMT
The Met is maroon because the Metropolitan Railway used a maroon colour scheme, similarly I think the DR was green.
I believe that red and black were chosen for the Central and Northern because they contrast nicely and form a strong centre to the map at Tottenham Court Road. Why this way round I don't know - did the CLR have red scheme?
The Jubilee Line is silver because it is named for Lizzie's silver jubilee.
Overground is Orange presumably because the East London Line was orange (although they are different oranges, for reasons I've never understood). My guess as to why the ELL was orange and the H&C is pink is that these were available colours when they were split from the Met.
The DLR colour is the same as the colour on their old logo, but I couldn't say which came first.
I don't know of any significance to the Circle, Picc, Vic or Bakerloo's colours - although this doesn't mean there aren't any.
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Post by abe on Jun 5, 2008 7:24:01 GMT
This month's Underground News has a few pages of letters on this topic. One of the writers has gone back through a couple of the Capital Transport books about the history of the maps, and reports on their observations.
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Post by Alight on Jun 5, 2008 8:52:03 GMT
Sorry, I must disagree with the whole maroon thing; the Metropolitan line is corporate magenta. static.scribd.com/docs/6wfl4g62vle8w.swf?INITIAL_VIEW=widthAnd I think the circle line is yellow because it needn't stand out as much as a line such as the Northern as it is merged with others. I think this could of been mentioned on mapman?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 5, 2008 14:28:26 GMT
The Met still had a maroon colour scheme. The district usually identified itself as green on maps. Didn't Beck make the bakerloo brown and the central red? Black was the colour for the C&SLR so when it merged with the Hampstead it made sense to carry the colour over aswell.
I take issue on the fact that the Jubilee is silver; it seems more like fleet grey ironically. But it should be silver. The DLR is anomollous. It was blue at first, then dark green, but now has a lot of material referenced to it which uses the turquoise colour. A bit inconsistat.
The vic is light blue because its original colour (violet or indigo...cant remember) proved too difficult to print on vitreous enamel signs.
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Post by miztert on Jun 5, 2008 15:53:35 GMT
(Sorry - another long post, I'm not very good at being concise!) [...] Overground is Orange presumably because the East London Line was orange (although they are different oranges, for reasons I've never understood). My guess as to why the ELL was orange and the H&C is pink is that these were available colours when they were split from the Met. [...] I think the reason why the Overground has a different orange goes way back. On the original London Connections map, produced jointly by LT and British Rail in the early 80's (before even Network SouthEast had come into existence) the Underground lines were represented by their respective colours, whilst the BR lines were shown in orange (I think they were shown in a 'striped' orange, much like the DLR is shown with a striped line today). If I recall correctly the one exception to this was Thameslink, which started in 1988 and was always shown as a blue line. Much later, though I'm not sure exactly when, the London Connections map started showing all the rail lines in different colours (I think this was intended to make it clearer which - or 'group of lines' - each of the different lines belonged to, but I'm a bit hazy on this). I think that at the same time, as all the BR lines received a colour, the Underground lines on the London Connections map were relegated to being represented by their black-and-white patterns instead! This lasted for several years, and it was only around 2000 or so when the Underground lines began to be shown in colour again on the London Connections map - they were shown as thin coloured lines, to contrast them from the thick coloured lines used to represent mainline rail lines. Incidentally for a while in the mid to late 80's on the Underground's own map they also used the same orange (either solid or striped) to represent the few British Rail lines which were included on the map, for example the GN&CR line between Moorgate and Finsbury Park. (Though they didn't show Thameslink as blue, which I think is how it always appeared on the London Connections map!) Have a look at some of these old Underground maps on this "London Tube Map Archive" website: www.clarksbury.com/cdl/maps.htmlConfused... you will be. Or more likely you already are - I certainly am Anyway I think this orange - which used to be used to show British Rail lines on both the London Connections map and the Underground map - has been resurrected to be the line colour for London Overground (and indeed the colour for all their signs and finishings and eventually it'll appear on their trains). The use of this orange for LO also fits in nicely with some other things... - The Silverlink Metro routes used to appear on the London Connections map in this orange colour (and LO hasn't of course changed this)
- The orange colour hadn't yet been used by any of the other TfL divisions (or 'modes') in their respective roundels - i.e. buses have a red roundel, trams have a green roundel, streets have a grey roundel etc, so now LO has an orange roundel.
- And of course London Overground will eventually to take over the East London Line - even if LO uses a slightly different orange, it's still orange so when it eventually appears on the map when the ELL extension opens it will be similar enough for people to realise the connection between the new extended route and the old ELL.
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Post by Alight on Jun 5, 2008 17:16:17 GMT
The DLR is anomollous. It was blue at first, then dark green, but now has a lot of material referenced to it which uses the turquoise colour. A bit inconsistat. Hi Benedict, I noticed the blue the other day actually! Embankment Northern Line south bound, as you leave the platform, at the top of the steps shows a map with a rather piccadillyish DLR! Yeah I liked the Teal colour as it is known as (more green than blue) which complemented the previous logo (see more on logo thread in DLR section) which can be found on many signs at Canary Wharf for example. I associate these 'water' areas such as Docklands and W&C line with the aqua colours for some reason although the colour was probably chose as Teal for both the line/logo as a 'not been used' one which stands out; note the W&C turquoise is quite faint but is a short line anyhow. And yes as you see now since the standard TFL roundles, the DLR has gone all turquoise, especially seen on line diagrams. Regarding the H&C, pink is quite a mauvish colour so that is my only logical explanation albeit the colour was probably chose due to a run out of colours.
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Post by ruislip on Jun 5, 2008 21:04:10 GMT
To me, the Central Line's color always looked more of a burnt orange rather than red (I even thought this was the case when I was a lad living in the Capital).
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Post by angelislington on Jun 5, 2008 21:20:17 GMT
Thanks, folks, for all the links. I've had a good rummage round and even well after Beck there seems to be some chopping and changing of colours. The only one that's consistent seems to be the Dissie. Most lines seem to have been printed in red when they were first opened, probably to draw attention to them.
I wonder if at first it had to do with trying to keep the maps legible despite being overlaid on a street plan; and later to do with cheapness of ink/difficulties with the complexity of the image & printing press processes - certainly a great deal of early maps I've seen have had one colour or another ever so slightly offset.
Strange, not having any consistency until about 1950, given that the roundel made its debut in the early years of the century.
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Post by Alight on Jul 4, 2008 20:14:36 GMT
Ruislip agreed! I always used to think of it as a deep orange.
Regarding DLR, just been looking on LU map archives, and I can confirm the DLR was shown as blue until the 1994 map, in which it became teal.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2008 22:18:56 GMT
Ruislip agreed! I always used to think of it as a deep orange. Regarding DLR, just been looking on LU map archives, and I can confirm the DLR was shown as blue until the 1994 map, in which it became teal. There's one of those metal floor-standing line maps at Bromley-by-Bow Upton Park that still has the original DLR logo on it, it's so ugly!
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Post by Alight on Jul 5, 2008 16:56:39 GMT
Are you regarding the teal oblong with "DOCKLANDS LIGHT RAIL" written in it? They are still in use on quite few signs at Canary Wharf too!
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 5, 2008 17:43:57 GMT
AI - remind me when you're back over my side of the dyke - there's a few letters in UN. Or did you read them when we were musing about crumpetsand marmite in Covent Garden....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2008 18:09:09 GMT
Are you regarding the teal oblong with "DOCKLANDS LIGHT RAIL" written in it? They are still in use on quite few signs at Canary Wharf too! No, not that one, I'm assuming it was the very first DLR logo. Dark blue oblong with "Docklands" written on it, there might have been a red stripe along the bottom too. Edit - It looked like where it says "Telephone" here, except it said "Docklands".
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 5, 2008 18:18:29 GMT
I take issue on the fact that the Jubilee is silver; it seems more like fleet grey ironically. It's Battleship Grey.
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Post by Tom on Jul 5, 2008 18:18:32 GMT
I take issue on the fact that the Jubilee is silver; it seems more like fleet grey ironically. It's Battleship Grey.
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Post by Alight on Jul 5, 2008 18:29:16 GMT
No, not that one, I'm assuming it was the very first DLR logo. Dark blue oblong with "Docklands" written on it, there might have been a red stripe along the bottom too. Edit - It looked like where it says "Telephone" here, except it said "Docklands". O okay - I've not seen that one but can imagine it as it matches the old exterior of the trains.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 6, 2008 20:22:43 GMT
I take issue on the fact that the Jubilee is silver; it seems more like fleet grey ironically. It's Battleship Grey. Indeed so, but I was refering to the wiki artical note on it Still think it should be silver though
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