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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 9:10:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 10:58:01 GMT
Hmmmm. Very interesting.
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Post by jamesb on Jul 16, 2007 12:36:13 GMT
I think we should wait and see what happens first!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 12:46:11 GMT
Wait and see.
Personally, I would expect that the contract would need to be re-tendered. Main concern is months of delay.
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Post by c5 on Jul 16, 2007 12:54:10 GMT
My money is on the work being sold on by Metronet to other companies or being bought out by one of the bigger consortium members and then run like the Tube Lies model.
Good to see that they are at last going to get some of the money they are owed by LUL.
Lets just hope that some venture capalist firm doesnt appear!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 16:29:41 GMT
i hate privitised railways bring back br and nse
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 17:14:57 GMT
I think they under-bid when the PPP contracts were put out, either that or these refurbs [stations and 78's] are costing more than they had estimated...
I was told that just ONE tile for the replica Acanthus Leaf [green embossed tiles] at Chalk Farm cost £24. Thats for just ONE...
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Post by edb on Jul 16, 2007 17:25:27 GMT
I'm assuming thats why they are making most of the other stations bland white bathrooms!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 17:27:16 GMT
*cough* Oxo Circy *cough*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 0:07:40 GMT
I think they under-bid when the PPP contracts were put out, either that or these refurbs [stations and 78's] are costing more than they had estimated... I was told that just ONE tile for the replica Acanthus Leaf [green embossed tiles] at Chalk Farm cost £24. Thats for just ONE... As I suppose it will work the same as for every government tender, I think Metronet is partially right about LU's ever increasing demands during the work. Normally, two parties will agree what has to be done, one party has demands, the other party quotes an amount based on those demands and off they go. For some reason, projects where a government or public body is involved will always have changing demands after the work has already started. This is seen in all larger undertakings and around the world, from Olympic Games to very large infrastructural works (WCML!). This is probably unavoidable and I would be very surprised if the TfL - Metronet situation was the one example in the world where this phenomenon did not occur. Mind you, I'm not saying Metronet is completely right on the amount, I'm just saying it will be a combination of both Metronet's inefficiencies and LU's changing demands. The exact balance is to be decided by the PPP arbiter. The real effect of all this is probably Metronet's shareholders are now scared ****less, fire some people, change policies or invest more in it. Maybe they'll take a good look at TubeLines' operation. Let's just hope they don't really go bust!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 8:00:31 GMT
The beleaguered rail maintenance firm Metronet faces tough questions from London Assembly members. The Assembly's Transport Committee will quiz the company about its finances and its future work on the Tube.
The meeting follows fears that the consortium faces administration after an independent review rejected its claim for £551m in overrun costs.
The company is responsible for maintaining the Bakerloo, Victoria and Central Lines.
Funding gap
Geoff Pope, transport spokesman for the London Assembly's Liberal Democrats, said: "It looks like there's going to be a funding gap."
"Some of this money is down to London Underground but most of it is to Metronet. Either way, there's more money to find and it should be back to Gordon Brown who set up this deal in the first place, against the wishes of the Mayor and Londoners.
"Londoners shouldn't have to pay for any of these cost overruns."
Committee members are also expected to ask about the recent derailment on the Central line and plans to close ticket halls.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 10:39:40 GMT
Bombardier has just written off it's investment in Metronet. However the company will still continue with its contracts. The press release is in the media centre at www.bombardier.com/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 14:08:27 GMT
Bombardier announced today its decision to write-off its investment in Metronet following the release of the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) Arbiter’s draft directions on interim infrastructure service charge (ISC) for Metronet Rail BCV Limited issued on Monday, July 16th, 2007. Given the uncertainties regarding Metronet’s funding position following the Arbiter’s draft directions, Bombardier will record a write-off of approximately $164 million US (£82 million) in the second quarter of fiscal year 2008.
Bombardier’s turnkey supply contracts with Metronet, currently valued at approximately £3.3 billion ($6.7 billion US), are for new trains, signalling, refurbishment of trains and fleet maintenance activities. These supply contracts are progressing well and Bombardier will continue to work on them as per the requirements contained in its contracts. Bombardier remains fully committed to deliver a world class, safe and reliable Tube for London.
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Post by jamesb on Jul 17, 2007 14:58:21 GMT
I was thinking this morning... From my point of view, as a regular customer, there has been a lot of activity lately - lots of stations have been refurbished - e.g. Roding Valley, Woodford, South Woodford, Snaresbrook etc. and there is 'activity' on almost all areas of the network.
If Metronet did go bust, what would happen to all these works-in-progress?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 16:07:40 GMT
tim o toole was talking on the news he was saying that all work should be able to carry on as usual, and that staff would be kept on, i dont know but it sounds like either it is going to be taken back in house or they already have another company lined up i wonder does anyone think tube lines would be interested
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Post by c5 on Jul 17, 2007 16:10:41 GMT
tim o toole was talking on the news he was saying that all work should be able to carry on as usual, and that staff would be kept on, i dont know but it sounds like either it is going to be taken back in house or they already have another company lined up i wonder does anyone think tube lines would be interested They have been asked and have probably seen the £££££££ signs. Hopefully people will see that that they are just as bad, but better at sucking up to that nasty man that masquerades as a Mayor for London.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 17:25:54 GMT
just reported on london tonight that london underground and the mayor have been working all day on emergency plans for when metronet go into adminerstration tomorrow.
they are looking at the main line running items first then will look at restarting the referb work so guess that means it will be put on hold
also they stated that london underground had a list of managers in metronet who they would not be keeping on
so what does everyone think this means what will happen to the d stock refurb program will it stop or what
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Post by Chris M on Jul 17, 2007 17:52:47 GMT
I expect that the D stock refurb program has sufficient momentum that it would take more effort and cost to stop it than it would to let it continue. It is possible that the bills, or a portion of them, have been paid to the people doing the refurb. It wouldn't surprise me if the transport contract was organised as a series of individual jobs paid when done.
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Post by Tom on Jul 17, 2007 19:35:39 GMT
Obviously bearing in mind my employer I can't say too much, but I would expect it to continue. As do Bombardier, it would seem from their press release yesterday:
"Bombardier’s turnkey supply contracts with Metronet, currently valued at approximately £3.3 billion ($6.7 billion US), are for new trains, signalling, refurbishment of trains and fleet maintenance activities. These supply contracts are progressing well and Bombardier will continue to work on them as per the requirements contained in its contracts."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 20:43:12 GMT
Wasn't a partner of Metromess, EDF?
I'm just concerned about my electric prices going up to cover EDF's losses from the PPP Golden Handshake Deal...
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Post by c5 on Jul 17, 2007 20:46:32 GMT
Wasn't a partner of Metromess, EDF? I'm just concerned about my electric prices going up to cover EDF's losses from the PPP Golden Handshake Deal... And their luvvying up to Ken and the Olympics! EDF also have the PFI Contract to supply, maintain and upgrade power supplies to the LUL Network. The Power Control staff however remain with LUL.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 20:47:47 GMT
yea edf was a partner in metromadness
according to the news metronet has informed tfl that they are calling in the administrators tomorrow tfl have chosen the company
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 21:12:28 GMT
I expect most of the ongoing work to continue as if nothing happened. Halting work may actually cost more and will make Metronet or its contracts less valuable for new investors or bidders on parts of the contracts and assets. However, they might just put some projects that were about to start on hold.
The Independent says:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 21:15:50 GMT
Hmm, I've just had a thought...
There's more to this than meets the eye...
So, if the company does not exist and the assets have to be maintained throughout the administration period, how do the staff get paid when they, technically, have no employer?
Definately more to this than meets the eye...
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Post by Oracle on Jul 17, 2007 21:31:53 GMT
THIS IS A GENERALISATION ONLY!
If a company is in Administration, not Liquidation, it is administered by licensed Insolvency Practitioners under the terms of the, say, crystallised floating charge [the creditors being the chargees, the company the chargors]. I seem to recall that when a company goes into admin. that all employees are automatically sacked but this of course would mean the end of the business, and would only apply if the Admins decided on a Liquidation: see below. I may be out-of-date though on this. The Administrators will seek to continue to trade unless by law they cannot, i.e. the company is unable to pay its debts in which case they are personally liable. The idea is that the company continues to protect the assets of the bank or other owner of the charge [or the shareholder companies], and then sell, dispose or otherwise deal to the best advantage of the chargees [or shareholders]. In this case, it is vital that things continue as much as possible to protect the value to the chargees, and allow stock taking to be made on inspection of accounts to see what health the company is in.
Of course employees have legal protection, and the Admins. will continue to ensure that they are paid. They may even open new bank accounts for that purpose. Usually banks call in Admins., and as they want to see the company trade out of Administration or be disposed of to the best possible deal, they may well provide funds for the company to trade. Shareholders amy also inject caopital to same purpose.
There is a big distinction between Administration and Liquidation: the latter means that all employees are sacked, the employees' final wages are paid, and the assets then disposed of on a winding-up. In an Administration the company continues to trade, and may even come out of Administration in the event of a shareholder's agreement after refinancing, dosposal of unwanted assets to release capital, or agreement with creditors. In the US they call it "Chapter X [10]" protection from creditors, and many airlines have gone into and out of Chapter X. Administration is not the end of the line so to speak.
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Post by Tom on Jul 17, 2007 22:25:55 GMT
And it should be remembered that this is no ordinary Administration - this is what is referred to as PPP Administration, where the Mayor decides on the Administrator and they are required to keep the Infraco(s) running whilst the contracts are re-let or otherwise finished.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 4:16:41 GMT
I would speculate that Tubelines will not want to take over some of Metronet's lines. Personally I thought that Metronet were quite forward thinking in some of it's upgrade plans, and often thought outside of the box, or looked at how other metro systems run things. I hope this continues if things do go back to being in-house.
Another issue I see with things going back in-house is that targets may not be met. For example if Metronet planned a line capacity upgrade of 15%, and only ran 5% more, they would most likely have lost out financially. If the upgrades go in-house what financial incentive is there to run that 15% upgrade? I hope we don't end up with more 0% peak capacity increases such as what happened with the Central Line upgrade.
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Post by Oracle on Jul 18, 2007 4:25:02 GMT
Yes, the Mayor possibly has powers under the agreement and then appoints just as a bank say would do. However, the company has asked for the Admins. to go in, and Ernst & Young may well be appointed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 6:30:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2007 7:14:55 GMT
News from metromadness website
Metronet Rail seeks Administration London, 18 July, 2007: The Boards of Metronet Rail BCV Limited and Metronet Rail SSL Limited, today announced that they had asked the Mayor to seek the appointment of a PPP Administrator for both companies. The announcement follows a period of financial uncertainty for Metronet.
On Monday 16 July, the PPP Arbiter announced that his draft Interim Direction, as part of an Extraordinary Review process which commenced for Metronet Rail BCV at the end of June, would result in an increase in the Infrastructure Service Charge to be received by that company of £121 million, beginning in January 2008.
Metronet Rail BCV requires additional funding to enable it to carry out its contractual obligations during the period of the Extraordinary Review.
This company has now established that it has no access to such further funds. Metronet Rail BCV will therefore be unable to carry out its contract and has asked the Mayor to seek the appointment of a PPP Administrator.
Applying the logic of the PPP Arbiter's draft direction to the circumstances of Metronet Rail SSL, the Board of this infrastructure company has come to the conclusion that any application for Extraordinary Review and Interim Determination would come to a similar position. It has therefore also asked the Mayor to seek the appointment of a PPP Administrator for Metronet Rail SSL.
Further announcements will be made in due course.
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