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Post by mandgc on Jun 4, 2007 23:15:33 GMT
The present Tube map shown on the LU site seems to have strayed somewhat from Beck's original standards. The top left hand corner (Chesham, Amersham and Uxbridge) appears exceptionally cramped and though it is Diagramatical rather than Geographical the apparent closeness of Uxbridge and Amersham seem rather unneccesary. The Uxbridge branch, running North West, would I think be better being shown running South West (as it does). There seems to be sufficient space for this by rearranging the Diagram along the left hand side. Any comments ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2007 23:20:10 GMT
Okay... move the Met line where it crosses the Central down a tad, possibly tweak the angle of the Met so that it points SW... Then move RUG - West Rui so that it points NW... by doing this, should allow more space for the Chesham, WFD and Ammy bits to be spaced out a bit more...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2007 2:22:33 GMT
When you take a look at the zone map though, it all just fits in that area. It seems they now do the zone maps first, then transfer the lines over, which keeps it all squashed up. My opinion is that the zones in that area should be changed, as its really squashing up the left side of the map, and making it look bad, however ATO's method would be an easier solution!
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Post by citysig on Jun 5, 2007 13:15:01 GMT
Well at least, however cramped, the map still shows most stations with their full names.
In contrast, of late on this forum, with all of it's relatively vast open spaces to write things in, we see the ever growing habit of referring to stations with their abbreviated codes.
I work on the combine and even I have to think where exactly someone is referring to. Is this new trend simply text speak by the back door?
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Post by Chris M on Jun 5, 2007 21:07:26 GMT
People are lazy, and codes are quicker to type than full names. Some codes are very easy to understand (HSK [High Street Kesnington] for example) others take more figuring out and so probably aren't apropriate for general conversation (GGR [Golders GReen] and CHX [CHaring cross] come to mind)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2007 21:21:09 GMT
I could recite the signal prefixes for the Central Line if I wished! But I won't!
CFS, RLN, OWD, UXB, GGR, EDG, MOR, HBT, MHE, QPK
Thats just a selection of others!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 5, 2007 21:46:06 GMT
I could recite the signal prefixes for the Central Line if I wished! But I won't! No - please don't! What do members think of this? We haven't considered it either way, and as usual it's the members' opinions that count. So much so that I think I'll start a poll - haven't done one of those for over a year now
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2007 21:48:23 GMT
I guess that the National Rail website has a complete list of their station's short-hand codes?
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Post by c5 on Jun 5, 2007 21:51:22 GMT
I think that the proper written name should be used to start with (in the same way that the Press do). Having said that. Myself, I am very used to writing in acronyms so am a bit guilty, as it's just second nature ;D ;D ;D ;D
What doesnt help is that some stations have different acronyms, that vary all the time!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2007 21:55:03 GMT
If the Map is redesigned, perhaps the acronyms could be included next to the name and grid reference, thus:- Amersham, D, A1, AMS...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 5, 2007 21:56:06 GMT
Poll now 'live'
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Post by Chris M on Jun 6, 2007 8:06:38 GMT
I guess that the National Rail website has a complete list of their station's short-hand codes? I'm not certain, but I'm fairly sure there's one on Wikipedia somewhere - I know that all of the articles on stations have the three-letter code in the infobox. I know I've seen one list (can't remember where) that included all the LU stations. Those that weren't also mainline stations had a code starting with X; some of those stations that do have mainline codes also have X codes.
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Post by citysig on Jun 6, 2007 9:48:34 GMT
Thanks for setting up the poll Phil.
Just to add one other point before I leave the thread to hopefully slip back to order.
The above uncertainty surrounding where lists of these codes are, and the inconsistency of posting them just proves one of the annoying aspects of using them.
Even though there are apparently "standard" codes issued somewhere for London Underground, you will find very few staff using those particular ones - mainly because they were thought up in an office and not in the "real world." I have found during my time on the job that the tubelines use them far more than the "real" railways. Maybe this explains why Artery Train Op uses them with ease.
Where I work we have a whole range of different codes/abbreviations for our particular area. We don't use them in communication though as this can cause confusion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2007 11:59:47 GMT
I just want to see those blue wheelchairs go as quickly as I can. There are special maps for all sorts of purposes, make this a specialist map as well and don't clutter the beautiful original design with it.
I also wonder if anything could be done about the way the Jubilee looks around Waterloo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2007 19:37:21 GMT
I just want to see those blue wheelchairs go as quickly as I can. There are special maps for all sorts of purposes, make this a specialist map as well and don't clutter the beautiful original design with it. I also wonder if anything could be done about the way the Jubilee looks around Waterloo. I agree, the wheelchairs just confuse the map needlessly. Also, recent issues of the map have been very poorly printed, with a very heavy use of blue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2007 21:58:46 GMT
I just want to see those blue wheelchairs go as quickly as I can. There are special maps for all sorts of purposes, make this a specialist map as well and don't clutter the beautiful original design with it. I also wonder if anything could be done about the way the Jubilee looks around Waterloo. +1
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Post by mandgc on Jun 7, 2007 9:44:29 GMT
Congestion at Waterloo, (on the map)
The Waterloo and City line could be shown running almost direct to Bank. This would allow the Jubilee to be straightend out.
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Post by cetacean on Jun 7, 2007 10:10:06 GMT
I just I also wonder if anything could be done about the way the Jubilee looks around Waterloo. The problem is the bottom edge of the circle is shown as straight, when it reality it makes a major dive south between Embankment and Sloane Square. If it was shown correctly, the Jubilee could cross it west-to-east, eliminating the sharp turn at Waterloo.
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Post by mandgc on Jun 9, 2007 5:49:37 GMT
Waterloo and Elephant/Kennington.
Further to my Reply #16, having eased the W&C and Jubilee lines this will allow Elephant & Castle to be placed further North and so ease its present rather cramped position.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 9, 2007 7:36:23 GMT
If you move Elephant & Castle north you'll also have to move the Z1/Z2 boundary and Vauxhall north.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2007 20:42:54 GMT
What would be good is if we could take all tube maps from all the years gone by, and place them, one on top of each other and then you'll be able to see just how much the maps have changed over the years... It'd be like looking at them as a slide show, one after the other, seeing how the Circle has been changed from a thin beaker shape to a bottle shape as of today!
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Post by Phil on Jun 9, 2007 22:16:33 GMT
Beck's original was brilliant and only had right angles. Once more lines came in (Vic and Jub), the next major decision was to have lines at 45o.
As I see it, the next major decision is to get rid of the 45s altogether and replace them with lines at 30 and/or 60o. That would enable all sorts of creative things to be done while still keeping to Beck's concepts. Who knows, the Circle could even become more sensible......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2007 22:41:34 GMT
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Post by mandgc on Jun 10, 2007 6:22:16 GMT
The trouble today is that the Diagram has almost doubled in complexity from Beck's original diagram and, presumably set out on a computer, doesn't get the loving care he gave to it. After a couple of years refining his diagram he finally got it accepted and in a year or two had to accomodate the Eastern, Western and Northern proposed extensions. Hopefully he looked on that as a new challenge! The present day map has had three further lines imposed upon it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 11:25:59 GMT
As I see it, the next major decision is to get rid of the 45s altogether and replace them with lines at 30 and/or 60 o. Sacrilege! It will end up looking like the Paris Metro map, or worse.
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Post by cetacean on Jun 10, 2007 11:57:26 GMT
Beck's original was brilliant and only had right angles. Once more lines came in (Vic and Jub), the next major decision was to have lines at 45 o. No, it was only Beck's later maps ( like this one) where he tried to get rid of all the diagonals, which I put down to too much time spent playing with the lines in his head rather than any practical need. The recent tube issue of Time Out claimed this one (NB Met is poorly printed) was his favourite, which is similarly beautiful-but-perverse.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 10, 2007 21:36:42 GMT
Beck's original map already had 45 degree angles? Err.....yes!! I've got one in a box beside me No, it was only Beck's later maps ( like this one) where he tried to get rid of all the diagonals, which I put down to too much time spent playing with the lines in his head rather than any practical need. The recent tube issue of Time Out claimed this one (NB Met is poorly printed) was his favourite, which is similarly beautiful-but-perverse. That's what I was thinking of when I penned the previous post. Total brain failure - my only excuse is I used to work off the 1956 (etc.) version but the earlier one has only ever been history. Mes apologies messieurs.
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Post by amershamsi on Jun 10, 2007 23:12:50 GMT
the '95 map ( link to '96 which is smaller and pretty much the same) should be the base for the current tube map, though I prefer the '86 handling of Chesham In addition to the wheelchair symbols causing problems, there are too many curves on lines, eg the Jubilee on the South Bank, or the DLR Woolwich branch (especially the unfinished bit). The Jubilee can be partially rectified by removing the wheelchairs, though the 90s layout would be better. The DLR branch could just be a vertical from the curve east of London City Airport onwards. It seems silly to add the curve before King George V, and sillier still to have 3 curves (a 135degrees turn) between KGV and Woolwich Arsenal. As I see it, the next major decision is to get rid of the 45s altogether and replace them with lines at 30 and/or 60 o. Max Roberts, in his book "Underground Maps after Beck" has one of his own creations, which has flexible angles, to create a map that has as few corners as possible. It's really rather horrible when you first see it - headache inducing in fact - but it does grow on you. Sacrilege! It will end up looking like the Paris Metro map, or worse. The Paris Metro map is sadly subject to the problems that the lines are crazy and keep crossing each other, making a map hard. The colour scheme doesn't help, nor does the huge emphasis of the RER. There's only horizontal, vertical and 45deg lines on it, though.
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Post by Ben on Jun 11, 2007 4:36:24 GMT
Any chance of a scan of that one perticular map?
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Post by mandgc on Jun 11, 2007 5:40:06 GMT
A number of the changes to 'Beck's' maps were made at the request of the Publicity department. Any changes (even improvements !) had to be agreed by them.
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