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Post by tom2506 on Nov 2, 2005 18:43:39 GMT
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 2, 2005 18:49:09 GMT
2009 Stock - the replacement for 1967TS. Yes they will be ATO equipped.
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Post by edb on Nov 2, 2005 19:51:05 GMT
They look kind of interesting. But they do have silly small windows.
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Post by tom2506 on Nov 2, 2005 21:18:14 GMT
I don't see small windows as too much of a problem because there isn't much to see on the tube anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 21:33:31 GMT
I don't see small windows as too much of a problem because there isn't much to see on the tube anyway! That view got the City and South London into trouble, with public ridicule of its original "padded cell" carriages. These new ones don't look much better. Isn't there a thread somewhere called "They never learn"?
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Post by edb on Nov 2, 2005 21:36:33 GMT
And as people should know around here there is lots to see!!
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Post by tom2506 on Nov 2, 2005 21:56:49 GMT
Yes, funnily enough when I was typing the reply i thought 'que comments about the City and South'!!.
The windows on the 2009 TS look quite small but should still give good outside visibility to those sitting.
Also, bare in mind that the photo will most probably be an artists impression and they can't always get it right, quite a good one though!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 22:21:58 GMT
I am surprised to see that BAET called them the 2009TS - I was the first one to call them such.
Has the name been sprinkled with holy signal current by Metronet?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 2, 2005 22:26:46 GMT
It has indeed - I found some cab drawings on the computer at work a while ago but can't remember what I did with them. The comment about the small windows has been made before by some senior LU people - the only reason Bombardier have managed to get away with it is because the Victoria line is 100% underground. (They're that size to fit ducting for air-con IIRC).
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Post by setttt on Nov 2, 2005 22:31:01 GMT
For those of you who are interested, more images of the new stock can be found here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2005 0:05:08 GMT
The cab picture seems to show a TBC simliar to D stock, rather than the handle in the arm of the seat as in 92ts. How are the 95s and 96s arranged in this respect?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 3, 2005 1:23:41 GMT
Not forgetting the S stock - metronetrail.com/default.asp?sID=1088068912937Yeah I know it's a Vic line thread, but I think it goes with the subject Of course the interesting thing is that they seem to be undecided on wether it will be 'articulated'
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 3, 2005 11:24:35 GMT
Not forgetting the S stock - metronetrail.com/default.asp?sID=1088068912937Yeah I know it's a Vic line thread, but I think it goes with the subject Of course the interesting thing is that they seem to be undecided on wether it will be 'articulated' If they really are SSL stock, how come the side windows seem to be as small as on the 2009ts? Metromess can't claim THEY run exclusively in tunnel!!!
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Post by edb on Nov 3, 2005 12:25:10 GMT
Apart from sill small windows the Vic line stock looks pretty good.
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Post by ejitrafik on Nov 3, 2005 12:59:47 GMT
Do we really need big windows? The whole of the passenger sections are undeground...
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Chris W
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Post by Chris W on Nov 3, 2005 14:29:02 GMT
When a few of us visited Action Museum depot a few weeks back, there was a model of a proposed prototype train - a new development in the model was the connections between carriages, similar to that of a 2-car Docklands LR unit so that the entire train between the DM's was open throughout. When the train would negotiate curves, the carriages would rotate around a floor plate between each carriage.
When I last visited Berlin a couple of years ago, some of the latest underground trains had this feature. It really does open up a train and allow more passengers to board. If, like me, you use the Northern Line in the mornings you'll know this is a long overdue feature!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 1:40:57 GMT
Walk-through trains? Why, so many systems I have visited have the walk-through ability, like Hong Kong's MTR or Singapore's MRT. It seems that London's lagging behind.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 6:07:14 GMT
IIRC the Victoria won't get walk-through trains now (bummer), but the S Stock will be walk-through. Somebody help me out and correct me!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 6, 2006 11:22:19 GMT
The latest proposals for the S stock are clearly walk through (see page 4 onwards of the SSR Upgrade Newsline thread on the Metropolitan Line board). I can't remember about the Vic trains though. Chris
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Post by william on Jun 6, 2006 15:46:09 GMT
IIRC the Victoria won't get walk-through trains now That is correct afaik, is there anyone here who can explain the reasons why ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 17:11:43 GMT
IIRC the Victoria won't get walk-through trains now That is correct afaik, is there anyone here who can explain the reasons why ? Too small?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jun 6, 2006 19:11:08 GMT
The 09 tube stock is on the production line at Derby now, it is not walk through and will be of standard LU tube train design. As for the reasons why? Well, I could try and think up some vastly complicated reason that involved car size and operational needs but to be honest I think it just wasn't considered at that time. An awful lot of learning has been experienced whilst working on the 09 stock for all parties concerned. LU, MRSSL, BTUK, and WRSL have looked at the good and bad bits of the whole VLU and tried to improve things on the SSRU. I'm not suggesting that this makes the 09 or VLU inferior, far from it in fact - the VLU has paved the way for an easier life on the SSRU. I'm just saying that we have all been on a learning curve and the SSRU is a few years behind the VLU which allows for improvements and advances in technology.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 6, 2006 20:40:59 GMT
VLU = Victoria Line Unit = 2009 Stock? SSRU = Sub-Surface Railway Unit = S Stock?
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Post by c5 on Jun 6, 2006 20:42:10 GMT
VLU = Victoria Line Unit = 2009 Stock? SSRU = Sub-Surface Railway Unit = S Stock? Correct
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 21:48:38 GMT
Do we really need big windows? The whole of the passenger sections are underground... Of course the windows should be as small as possible so that as many standing passengers as possible miss their station and go into a zone they haven't got a ticket for, thus maximising penalty fare revenue ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2006 22:32:55 GMT
When a few of us visited Action Museum depot a few weeks back, there was a model of a proposed prototype train - a new development in the model was the connections between carriages, similar to that of a 2-car Docklands LR unit so that the entire train between the DM's was open throughout. When the train would negotiate curves, the carriages would rotate around a floor plate between each carriage. When I last visited Berlin a couple of years ago, some of the latest underground trains had this feature. It really does open up a train and allow more passengers to board. If, like me, you use the Northern Line in the mornings you'll know this is a long overdue feature!!! The "Walk-through" Victoria Line train design that you saw, was the "Space Train" proposal. This would use 12x11m articulated cars, with unique six small wheeled articulated bogies. (Not too unlike a 100% low floor tram). As the car lengths were very short, then the cars could be made wider as there would be less overhang on curved track. Thus the train would be more spacious, and hold more passengers. Unfortunately, due to the high costs of developing a train like this, and PPP, then the "Space Train" was dropped for a more conventional train. Space Train interior model www.flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/108328170/in/set-1617237/Space train bogie www.flickr.com/photos/stephenk1977/108328169/in/set-1617237/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2006 1:58:45 GMT
Cool, but the bogie looks too plastickie. The interior looks too white. What if somebody spilt curry chicken on it? Walk-through trains I think are great for safety, capacity etc.
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Post by ttran on Jun 7, 2006 8:59:51 GMT
Honestly, I don't know what LU were thinking with that space train ball hooks. A train simply wouldn't work with wheels that small and articulated carriages like that. Big beefy wheels and spacious yet compact carriages are the way...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2006 17:33:40 GMT
Honestly, I don't know what LU were thinking with that space train ball hooks. A train simply wouldn't work with wheels that small and articulated carriages like that. Big beefy wheels and spacious yet compact carriages are the way... Small wheeled, articulated, low floor trams seem to cope quite well, and they also run quite happily at speeds up to 80kph as well. The new trains will use thinner car walls (Bombardier FICAS technology) to help increase the interior space.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jun 7, 2006 18:36:12 GMT
VLU = Victoria Line Unit = 2009 Stock? SSRU = Sub-Surface Railway Unit = S Stock? Correct No, sorry that's incorrect. It's my fault for not spelling them out correctly first time. VLU = Victoria Line Upgrade. SSRU = Sub-Surface Railway Upgrade.
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