solidbond
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'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Oct 14, 2005 20:20:24 GMT
The BBC local news tonight had a pretty good explanation of the tripcock system and they filmed a Northern line train being tripped in the depot. Now all our passengers will know what a tripcock is! Although what I found 'interesting' was that, despite the train being tripped, the tripcock didn't latch back - probably because of the low speed - but isn't that part of the problem with the Northern line stock?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 21:14:10 GMT
Yes, I believe that is exactly what the problem is.
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solidbond
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'Give me 118 reasons for an Audible Warning on a C Stock'
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Post by solidbond on Oct 14, 2005 21:17:27 GMT
Yes, I believe that is exactly what the problem is. I believe, from what I have read elsewhere, that the problem is twofold. 1. The tripcocks 'resetting' themselves, as was shown on the BBC news item 2. The pressure switches, (more specifically, pressure switch 3 ;D) which should set up a 3 minute time-delay, not working correctly
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 21:50:34 GMT
Yes, I believe that is exactly what the problem is. I believe, from what I have read elsewhere, that the problem is twofold. 1. The tripcocks 'resetting' themselves, as was shown on the BBC news item Indeed, this is what was originally mentioned on u.t.l. 2. The pressure switches, (more specifically, pressure switch 3 ;D) which should set up a 3 minute time-delay, not working correctly Whoops ;D Is a similar tripcock assembly used on the 1996TS? I wonder if the upcoming Christmas lengthening of the 96TS will provide an opportunity for an examination of the 126 tripcocks the line currently has.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 15, 2005 3:27:05 GMT
[the tripcocks are in place and are in gauge. The only time it becomes a fault condition is when the [Northern line] trains trip at slow speed (-15mph). Whats actually happening is that the tripcock arm in many cases is not going fully back and locking in place or taking out all three pressure switches. As the arm goes back to it's normal position, no activation is registered - and potentially that train in front is getting too close for comfort See I already told you lot that!! The 96ts difference - As I understand it, the 95ts was specifically designed for automatic operation, with the tripcock system being a retrofit. The 96ts had them as part of the design from day one.
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Post by Christopher J on Oct 15, 2005 9:05:11 GMT
The 96ts difference - As I understand it, the 95ts was specifically designed for automatic operation, with the tripcock system being a retrofit. The 96ts had them as part of the design from day one. Colin, I believe it was the opposite way around. the 96TS were designed specifically for Auto operation but when it was announced ATO wouldn't be active on the Jubilee by the time the Trains arrived, they had to convert them for manual operation. I’m not so sure if the same situation happened with the 95s though.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Oct 15, 2005 11:58:13 GMT
I would expect that Colin is correct. 1995 TS is a more advanced design that 96TS, as the original plan was for 1996 stock to run with modified 1983 stock Effectively the design for 1996 stock was set in stone during the early 1990s.
With 1995 stock, the plan was for a large northern line project similar to the central line project. But as the CLP went pear shaped, the northern's plans were cut back to just new trains.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 18:04:30 GMT
well lul have always bought cheap so as they say you get what you pay for
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 18:20:56 GMT
Well apparently acoording to the TfL website, a limited service was intended to start operating as of "later this evening", although personally I still wouldn't trust it! Latest press release from here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 22:27:09 GMT
Thank God for some common sense on FGW at last- as also seems to be the case dropping the disciplinaries for the 'Northern four' who first refused over the tripcock issue. Having said that, apparently FGW is an odd one because their trains are fitted with ATP, which sometimes changes what they do with the train. Normal procedure is what i posted above.
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Post by russe on Oct 15, 2005 23:31:59 GMT
Well apparently acoording to the TfL website, a limited service was intended to start operating as of "later this evening", although personally I still wouldn't trust it! I checked that tfl release earlier this afternoon, cos I was going Leyton-Angel later this evening, and I had a looksee at Bank, but nothing was happening on the Northern line, so I nudged back to Liverpool Street on the Central and hopped a Circle to Kings X, and then nipped on a bendybus up the Pentonville Road. Btw, heavy duty BTP presence at Liverpool Street tonight - summat up, or just the usual Saturday night fever? Russ
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 16, 2005 0:21:15 GMT
Millwall coming back from Norwich.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 16, 2005 11:09:20 GMT
according to the tfl map, there is no service between Finchely Central and Kennington via either of the branches. "Normal services" operating on the branches north/south of those stations though.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 16, 2005 14:50:35 GMT
now the situation is almost entirely reversed! There is a "normal" service on the central section between Kennington and Golders Green/Finchley Central via both Bank anc Charing Cross. The only thing that hasn't changed is that the Mill Hill East branch is still running normally.
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Post by trainopd78 on Oct 16, 2005 20:12:37 GMT
well lul have always bought cheap so as they say you get what you pay for Dont forget, LUL didn't buy these trains. They only came into being because of a PFI between GEC Alsthom and LUL. The trains were purchased and built by GEC Alsthom under an arrangement where they built and maintained them and after a fixed period of time, 25 years? the trains would have been transferred to LUL stock.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 19, 2005 19:34:25 GMT
Some influential voices are calling for Alstom to be stripped of their contract on the Northern,that's fine except for one problem as I understand it in the original PFI Alstom own the fleet of 95TS LUL/TfL only lease them.If Alstom get the boot can they take their trains with them?Or sell them to TfL/Tubelines for megabucks.
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Post by yellowsignal on Oct 19, 2005 20:13:45 GMT
Some influential voices are calling for Alstom to be stripped of their contract on the Northern,that's fine except for one problem as I understand it in the original PFI Alstom own the fleet of 95TS LUL/TfL only lease them.If Alstom get the boot can they take their trains with them?Or sell them to TfL/Tubelines for megabucks. Usually, if the contracts have some escape clause, there is something in it that says that LUL can buy the trains for a reasonable price. Alstom can take the trains with them, but who wants to buy ten year old trains designed for a very specific environment that have been out of service for very severe safety-related issues with allegations of bad maintenance? Both parties have an equally strong negotiating position and both want to keep the trains on the northern line. So the reasonable price is a simple calculation by Alstom's and LUL's beancounters combined with a bit of haggling.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 21, 2005 19:55:37 GMT
I see in today's Metro the finger pointing between Alstom and Tubelines has started as to who was to blame.I reckon they should share it 50/50 Alstom for not doing the work correctly and Tubelines for not supervising their subbie properly.As Alstom are the junior partner they'll probably get dumped on by Tubelines to cover their profits.PPP eh?The closest thing to legalised theft you've ever seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2005 20:25:50 GMT
sry OT, but dragging this up fro earlier i the thread. In 1997 AWS was not required to be online by Railtrack Group Standards, Compulsory AWS was one of the recomendations of the report. In those days it was a WARNING system ie, if the driver didn't want the warning then he wouldn't get it, and he'd be responsible for any injuries/loss of life if a SPAD were to occour.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 21, 2005 21:29:27 GMT
sry OT, but dragging this up fro earlier i the thread. Sorry jn, can you translate? Us oldies do not understand textspeak! Not the way you put it. If the line and the Traction was AWS fitted the driver had no option but to use it. However even at that time there were several lines without AWS and then the driver had no option but NOT to use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2005 16:22:41 GMT
typos and text speak combined in Standard English it translates:
Sorry this is a bit off topic and being dragged up from earlier in the thread....
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Post by intercity125 on Nov 20, 2005 19:15:49 GMT
I though FGW, in common with other TOCs was no AWS/ TPWS = no run.
I've been told that on SWT if a driver doesn't tip out on an AWS fault then it's P45 time.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 21, 2005 14:15:11 GMT
I though FGW, in common with other TOCs was no AWS/ TPWS = no run. ic125 - you will find this has already been answered by MA in this thread a few posts above. It's better to read posts thoroughly than to post again and make yourself look a..........
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