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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2006 19:58:44 GMT
Just a thought in this sweltering heat - how many lines have air con cabs - if any ?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 17, 2006 20:07:58 GMT
Central, Northern, Jubilee, Piccadilly, W&C (when it's open!) and refurbished D all do. The Met, ELL, C&H and unrefurbished D do not. The Vic have a form of air con but it is not actual A/C. Not sure about the Bakerloo though?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2006 20:22:48 GMT
in a way, C stock does have air con - off side door is open!
Does the air con do everything it says on the tin?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 17, 2006 20:50:48 GMT
Bakerloo has the blowers in the cab,supposed to be cool air in summer,warm air in winter.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 17, 2006 21:02:57 GMT
in a way, C stock does have air con - off side door is open! Does the air con do everything it says on the tin? You see, the 'C' Stock bashing is starting again - I simply won't stand for it! You leave my beloved 'C' alone! ;D The Picc units are currently being sent away for some sort of mod, apparently they began blowing hot air when the outside temp hit high levels (oh well!). I have a meeting about 'D' on August 17th so I will let you know if any issues are raised but to my knowledge we have had no complaints. AFAIK the Northern and Jubilee units work ok, but I am not too familiar with the 95/96's so I stand to be corrected. Talking to the T'Ops on the ground (or under it as the case may be!), the Vic 'Peltier' (spelling?) units have been well received after a few early teething problems. I just don't know about the Central line 92's though. If the A/C is like the stock though, it is probably falling apart. Oop's, T'Op92 will have my head on a platter for that. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2006 21:14:21 GMT
92ts Air Con is okay, worse in winter when the heaters ain't been used; wise to run the high temp for a few minutes and vacate the cab, to allow smell of burning dust and all sorts to expel...
Aww, no offence meant, prjb. I quite like the C stock anyway, rather nice to ride one down through Putney Bdge...
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 17, 2006 21:19:31 GMT
None taken mate! ;D And before anyone else says it, Artery did say 'ride one down through Putney Bdge' and not off of it! I know how you guys think!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2006 22:24:08 GMT
You see, the 'C' Stock bashing is starting again - I simply won't stand for it! You leave my beloved 'C' alone! ;D C stocks are appalling in hot weather. Not only do they have no A/C, they also have no ventilation except opening the doors, so are unbearable unless you open both doors (which we're not supposed to do, but nearly everyone does). Only that some are already broken  Had one the other day - it had been reported on the defect log, reply "Reported to Bombardier - Warranty issue" ! |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 17, 2006 23:23:21 GMT
You must suffer for your art! You all know that 'C' Stock are the superior surface stock!! ;D
I have had a PM from another member on the subject of 'D' Stock A/C too. I'll also add your comments to my ever expanding list! Thanks.
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Jul 17, 2006 23:27:53 GMT
You must suffer for your art! You all know that 'C' Stock are the superior surface stock!! ;D And as we all know, the refurbishment of C stock was the work of a genius - anyone who could take the worst train ever built - and make it worse MUST be a genius ;D ;D ;D ;D But I still love working them |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2006 6:22:50 GMT
You must suffer for your art! You all know that 'C' Stock are the superior surface stock!! ;D And as we all know, the refurbishment of C stock was the work of a genius - anyone who could take the worst train ever built - and make it worse MUST be a genius ;D ;D ;D ;D But I still love working them Nah, the worst TRAIN ever built was the 83s. The worst surface stock, well, I'm just gonna stay neutral ;D |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 18, 2006 9:13:28 GMT
The air con on the 95ts is very good, so good some ops refer to it as the "icebox". I have even felt cold travelling in the cab, and thats in the summer as well! ;D
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Post by trainopd78 on Jul 18, 2006 9:32:41 GMT
I'll really miss the C stock once they're gone. If you can drive one well, and comfortably, then you know you've done a good job, and that gives a certain sense of satisfaction. Same with the westinghouse, do a good one (well if my trainee does ) and you're like a cheshire cat for the next 30 seconds. The first one on the mark is just such a good feeling.  I like driving them, they just feel so mechancal, and often unpredictable too. I like the Wimbleware road too. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 18, 2006 19:52:19 GMT
You must suffer for your art! You all know that 'C' Stock are the superior surface stock!! ;D And as we all know, the refurbishment of C stock was the work of a genius - anyone who could take the worst train ever built - and make it worse MUST be a genius ;D ;D ;D ;D But I still love working them Blasphemy! Wash your keyboard out with soap immediately. ;D |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 18, 2006 19:55:17 GMT
I'll really miss the C stock once they're gone. If you can drive one well, and comfortably, then you know you've done a good job, and that gives a certain sense of satisfaction. Same with the westinghouse, do a good one (well if my trainee does ) and you're like a cheshire cat for the next 30 seconds. The first one on the mark is just such a good feeling. I like driving them, they just feel so mechancal, and often unpredictable too. I like the Wimbleware road too. I have always liked you!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2006 20:39:01 GMT
what amazes me is that the Peltier units being added to 67ts are in fact only a short term solution, seeing as the 09ts is coming on stream very soon. Mind you, I've been in a 67ts cab and even in September found myself sweating within one stop...
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 18, 2006 20:45:04 GMT
Still think it was a mistake to make C stock 3 two car units,should have replaced like for like and made them 3 car units,would have been less units and less cabs.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 18, 2006 22:08:15 GMT
what amazes me is that the Peltier units being added to 67ts are in fact only a short term solution, seeing as the 09ts is coming on stream very soon. Mind you, I've been in a 67ts cab and even in September found myself sweating within one stop... It was an attempt to address a problem within the constraints of the stock, it's remaining life, and cost implications. The Vic is terribly hot and, whilst i had nothing to do with their introduction whatsoever, I hope that the Peltier units have made some improvement. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 18, 2006 22:13:40 GMT
Still think it was a mistake to make C stock 3 two car units,should have replaced like for like and made them 3 car units,would have been less units and less cabs. 'C' Stock is one of the most versatile stocks on the combine because of the fact they are two car units. You can chop and change them as you see fit. I also believe the original plan when they were ordered was to run four car trains off peak. Two three car units would most likely end up being double ended (for flexibility) which would result in more cabs. As you know 'A' Stock have two middle cabs, 'D' have some middle cabs too. Middle cabs will not feature on any future stock, they take up valuable space, cost more to build and are basically operationally unnecessary. |
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Jul 18, 2006 23:00:43 GMT
Still think it was a mistake to make C stock 3 two car units,should have replaced like for like and made them 3 car units,would have been less units and less cabs. 'C' Stock is one of the most versatile stocks on the combine because of the fact they are two car units. You can chop and change them as you see fit. I also believe the original plan when they were ordered was to run four car trains off peak. Two three car units would most likely end up being double ended (for flexibility) which would result in more cabs. As you know 'A' Stock have two middle cabs, 'D' have some middle cabs too. Middle cabs will not feature on any future stock, they take up valuable space, cost more to build and are basically operationally unnecessary. Not sure that I agree with you on that last bit Compare the introduction of the 73 stock and the D stock. The 73s were deliverd single end units first. The D stock were delivered double end units first. The reason? If there are two west end (or east end) units of single end stock defective, and there are no double end units, you have two train not available, as the other ends of the train can't be used on their own. If you have double end units however, you can use the double enders to replace the duff single end units, thus only one train not available. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 19, 2006 0:06:10 GMT
In the days when C stock was built middle cabs were still an option,they could have been fully reversible al a A60/62 when built.The bean counters seem to have got rid of all the flexibility on this railway
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2006 18:23:42 GMT
I agree that the Peltier air units being fitted have been well received by Vic Line T/Op's.
there was a feature of this in a recent 'On The Move'...
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 21, 2006 20:11:57 GMT
In the days when C stock was built middle cabs were still an option,they could have been fully reversible al a A60/62 when built.The bean counters seem to have got rid of all the flexibility on this railway In the future flexibility will not be an issue with regards to coupling. Any 'S' will be able to couple to any 'S', regardless of what way round they are. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 21, 2006 20:15:45 GMT
'C' Stock is one of the most versatile stocks on the combine because of the fact they are two car units. You can chop and change them as you see fit. I also believe the original plan when they were ordered was to run four car trains off peak. Two three car units would most likely end up being double ended (for flexibility) which would result in more cabs. As you know 'A' Stock have two middle cabs, 'D' have some middle cabs too. Middle cabs will not feature on any future stock, they take up valuable space, cost more to build and are basically operationally unnecessary. Not sure that I agree with you on that last bit Compare the introduction of the 73 stock and the D stock. The 73s were deliverd single end units first. The D stock were delivered double end units first. The reason? If there are two west end (or east end) units of single end stock defective, and there are no double end units, you have two train not available, as the other ends of the train can't be used on their own. If you have double end units however, you can use the double enders to replace the duff single end units, thus only one train not available. You do have a point there, but bear in mind that 'S' will be block trains and it is not anticipated that we will uncouple them and swap units around. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 21, 2006 21:17:02 GMT
So,instead of only having half a train out of action,there'll be a whole train out of action,doesn't sound much like progress to me.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 21, 2006 21:40:45 GMT
These trains are not going to have huge down time, they go defective they get fixed and re-enter service. Metronet could by all means leave stock hanging around the yard but it will cost them, so they won't do it.
Just incase they do decide to not fix stock and leave it in the depot I guess LU could specify middle cabs to help them out. Thinking about it though, do we really want to ruin the whole through train concept, or waste valuable passenger space, and increase our costs (Metronet won't pay for them) by adding an unnecessary middle cab? I think not.
Progress then? Yes in my opinion.
Just for the record, I spoke to a member of Tubelines today about the Northern line stock and he said he believes that they still have 96's running around in the same formation they were originally delivered in.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 21, 2006 23:12:32 GMT
Takes more than a day to fix flatted wheels,flashed over motors or broken suspension,plus there must be a maintenance schedule for half life overhaul,the under sole bar gear doesn't last forever,and what about shed day or whatever they call it these days?On conventional stock you just knocked off the defective or requested unit and replaced it with one repaired or the last one on lifting/shed day etc.Another thing,if S stock is going to be block 8 & 7 cars,someone's going to have to spend a hell of a lot of money modifying the depots and I don't think it will be the infracos if they can get out of it.
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Post by stanmorek on Jul 21, 2006 23:25:04 GMT
Wouldn't the issue of who pays lie with who wanted such a feature? If Metronet insist on using their own design then they have to provide something that is viable. Meanwhile if LU put something in their specification then they need to have thought through it all in the feasibility. But of course PPP is about who has the best lawyers.
Not into rolling stock so excuse me ignorance but that's what I'd expect in a civil engineering contract.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 21, 2006 23:59:21 GMT
Takes more than a day to fix flatted wheels,flashed over motors or broken suspension,plus there must be a maintenance schedule for half life overhaul,the under sole bar gear doesn't last forever,and what about shed day or whatever they call it these days?On conventional stock you just knocked off the defective or requested unit and replaced it with one repaired or the last one on lifting/shed day etc.Another thing,if S stock is going to be block 8 & 7 cars,someone's going to have to spend a hell of a lot of money modifying the depots and I don't think it will be the infracos if they can get out of it. If a four car unit is stopped for any of those reasons the other half would be stopped anyway, we are not ordering a spare four car unit. The numbers of trains ordered reflect the service level required along with a need for some units to be in the depot for routine/unexpected maintenance. Can't really see the issue with stopping a whole train for scheduled maintenance/overhaul rather than an individual unit. It works right now on the Northern line. Metronet have a depot strategy in place to meet the new trains requirements. Their depot staff have been involved with the whole life design and maintenance of the new stock. Their depot staff are long standing ex-LU depot staff who know their needs. It is their contractual responsibility to meet any depot related costs associated with the upgrade. We haven't had any problems with them so far, despite popular belief LU and the Infraco's work quite well together. We know them, they know us and most of us have worked together for years regardless of the PPP. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 22, 2006 0:02:29 GMT
Everyone's saying Metronet/Tubelines do this or that,but what happens in 2030?PPP finishes then,by rights everything infrastructure should revert back to LUL/TfL.I would have thought things should be done to what LUL/TfL want as they'll still be around after PPP.
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Had one the other day - it had been reported on the defect log, reply "Reported to Bombardier - Warranty issue" !
