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Post by setttt on Jun 22, 2005 16:48:21 GMT
I've got a couple of questions about the picc: 1. Is it true that Picc drivers refuse to take a train into service if there isn't a crisp packet stuffed down the side of the destination blind? 2. Is Northfields unique amongst LU depots in that it has vending machines instead of a proper cantine? I'm sure I'll have some more questions to ask soon EDIT - 3. Do drivers and maintenance staff ever talk to each other (nicely)? I only ask because every driver who pulled into the depot whistled violently at us and pulled a massive scowl!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2005 20:49:31 GMT
1. Is it true that Picc drivers refuse to take a train into service if there isn't a crisp packet stuffed down the side of the destination blind? Never heard of that! 2. Is Northfields unique amongst LU depots in that it has vending machines instead of a proper cantine? Not sure.... EDIT - 3. Do drivers and maintenance staff ever talk to each other (nicely)? I only ask because every driver who pulled into the depot whistled violently at us and pulled a massive scowl! A Train Ops has to whistle at staff about the track whether it be in the depot or on the mainline, if they fail to acknowledge him, he has to stop his train. I am sure if there was a slight delay in responding, he rightly wasnt too pleased.
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Post by setttt on Jun 22, 2005 21:26:44 GMT
1. Is it true that Picc drivers refuse to take a train into service if there isn't a crisp packet stuffed down the side of the destination blind? Never heard of that! Have a look next time you're up front in a 73. EDIT - 3. Do drivers and maintenance staff ever talk to each other (nicely)? I only ask because every driver who pulled into the depot whistled violently at us and pulled a massive scowl! A Train Ops has to whistle at staff about the track whether it be in the depot or on the mainline, if they fail to acknowledge him, he has to stop his train. I am sure if there was a slight delay in responding, he rightly wasnt too pleased. I didn't mention that we moved at least a car's length from the stopping mark, and that he blew up again despite the fact that we moved as soon as he entered the sheds! But seriously, it seems like drivers and maintenance staff avoid each other like the plague!
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 22, 2005 21:30:30 GMT
2. Is Northfields unique amongst LU depots in that it has vending machines instead of a proper cantine? No, they're almost all like that these days. Hainault has a real canteen but it was closed last time I was there
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Post by igelkotten on Jun 22, 2005 21:48:28 GMT
2. Is Northfields unique amongst LU depots in that it has vending machines instead of a proper cantine? No, they're almost all like that these days. Hainault has a real canteen but it was closed last time I was there Speaking of canteens, Det finns vissa (osäkra) chanser att grilla falukorv på strömskenan under den period som du är här. Jag skall undersöka saken närmare tills du kommer. , drop me a line for more info -your mobile seems to have gone to lala-land.
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Post by Tom on Jun 22, 2005 22:03:04 GMT
Speaking of canteens, Det finns vissa (osäkra) chanser att grilla falukorv på strömskenan under den period som du är här. Jag skall undersöka saken närmare tills du kommer. , drop me a line for more info -your mobile seems to have gone to lala-land. Falukorv - we were discussing that in college today, though I really don't fancy trying horse. My mobile *looks* like it works - Jag ska ringer dig. EDIT: I've just realised what you're talking about, I'll definately call!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2005 0:51:35 GMT
Speaking of canteens, Det finns vissa (osäkra) chanser att grilla falukorv på strömskenan under den period som du är här. Jag skall undersöka saken närmare tills du kommer. Now now... No talking in tongues on this forum please! I wish I'd kept in touch with my Swedish penpal I had when I was ten! EDIT: Just found a translator! I'll PM you with what I think it says and tell me how accurate I am/it is! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2005 22:07:55 GMT
Have a look next time you're up front in a 73. I will and i know excatly what you mean, however T/ops do not refuse to take trains out if tehre isnt a crisp packet there I didn't mention that we moved at least a car's length from the stopping mark, and that he blew up again despite the fact that we moved as soon as he entered the sheds! Its at the T/Ops desgression, if he aint happy, he is going to whistle again till he is. But seriously, it seems like drivers and maintenance staff avoid each other like the plague! Why would then need to chat, 99% of times drvers are stabling and going home, they are not going to hang around passing the time of day
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Post by igelkotten on Jun 24, 2005 1:07:20 GMT
Why would then need to chat, 99% of times drvers are stabling and going home, they are not going to hang around passing the time of day if they did, they might discover that the people on the other side are people, too. And they might discover that alöl fitters and shunters are not lazy bastards out to delay drivers and stop them from going home on time, and all drivers do not purposefully vandalise trains out of spite for the depot staff. They might actually get an understanding for how the other half works, what they do and why, and why certain thigns are so important to them. A thought bordering on treason, I suppose.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 24, 2005 2:56:09 GMT
Ah but we're in the lovely world of PPP now, where everything has a cost - and no one likes to pay.
I've had disagreements with depot staff several times, because they want trains in service or it cost's them money. Quite frankly, I don't care who pays - i'm the driver, and if a train is not fit for service, it's not fit.
Gone are the days when all staff had a common goal - to move the public from A to B. Now 'their' focus is getting that train out on time and in service. we are now on different wavelengths with differing ideals.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2005 5:26:12 GMT
But seriously, it seems like drivers and maintenance staff avoid each other like the plague! It depends on the individuals involved, I usually have a few words and sometimes a bit of micky taking with the depot staff and cleaners as I get off and they get on my train.
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Post by setttt on Jun 24, 2005 6:30:19 GMT
Have a look next time you're up front in a 73. I will and i know excatly what you mean, however T/ops do not refuse to take trains out if tehre isnt a crisp packet there That's what I would have thought, but I asked many different members of staff and they all said the same thing.
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Post by igelkotten on Jun 24, 2005 8:21:27 GMT
Ah but we're in the lovely world of PPP now, where everything has a cost - and no one likes to pay. I've had disagreements with depot staff several times, because they want trains in service or it cost's them money. Quite frankly, I don't care who pays - i'm the driver, and if a train is not fit for service, it's not fit. Gone are the days when all staff had a common goal - to move the public from A to B. Now 'their' focus is getting that train out on time and in service. we are now on different wavelengths with differing ideals. We have much the same kind of lunacy going on here. However, I have found that being on good terms with the depot staff makes it all that much easier to say I'm breaking the rules with a naughty word that brown stuff and cancel that departure, or get a replacement.
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Post by q8 on Jun 24, 2005 10:11:24 GMT
4 on the whistle and along comes the fitter at his usual "fast reverse" walking pace.
"Wassamarrer"... "Me tea cans empty" ... "Wot?" ..."Me tea cans empty" ... "So, worram I supposed to do abaht it?"... "Well yore the geezer that's supposed to see that everything is fit for service and I ain't 'cos me tea cans empty!"................"F*CK ORF AHT OVVIT!!!!"
Oh it was FUN to go to work in my day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2005 12:25:47 GMT
That's what I would have thought, but I asked many different members of staff and they all said the same thing. From our side of the fence that is not the case, depot staff may think it is. I think the problem with the relationship between depot staff and operational staff is that every time a train comes in with a defect it goes back out with 'NDF - No Defect Found' in the log book when there is blatantly a defect with the train. Or a driver may report that the Rheo is bad, the depots response is 'Cannot repoduce fault in depot', now how do you get up to 35 / 40 mph in northfields depot?
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Post by q8 on Jun 24, 2005 16:23:22 GMT
I thought that all new stock had "black box" wotnots on them to record the operation and malfunction of train equipment so that maintainance staff would have verification of the defect.
By the way "NDF" in my day was always appended by train crews with an "A" (NDFA) This stood for "Not done f*ck all"
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Post by setttt on Jun 24, 2005 16:27:26 GMT
From our side of the fence that is not the case, depot staff may think it is. From your side of the fence? Sorry, are you actually a qualified driver? I think the problem with the relationship between depot staff and operational staff is that every time a train comes in with a defect it goes back out with 'NDF - No Defect Found' in the log book when there is blatantly a defect with the train. I recall only one job being sen back NDF this week, and that was because the train with the defect was drawing down to the neck when we reached it. If there was a defect, surely the driver shouldn't have confirmed to East Cabin that his train was ready for service? Or a driver may report that the Rheo is bad, the depots response is 'Cannot reproduce fault in depot', now how do you get up to 35 / 40 mph in northfields depot? Since it is not possible to reach those speeds in the depot, how, may I ask, is it the fitters' fault that the fault cannot be reproduced?
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Post by Colin on Jun 24, 2005 19:54:02 GMT
If i may butt in - why can't they take it for a test run on the main line. There are allocated paths specifically for the purpose of testing.
Then again, fix the fault?, phew I was dreaming there ;D ;D
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Post by setttt on Jun 24, 2005 20:05:11 GMT
If i may butt in - why can't they take it for a test run on the main line. There are allocated paths speciffically for the purpose of testing. Testing is only carried out on trains which have had a long-term fault which is being monitored (from what I've been told). EDIT - note to Piccadilly Pilot - Boston was empty again today as the juice was off
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Post by Colin on Jun 24, 2005 20:16:18 GMT
Well if that's the case, they're gonna have to take a drivers word for it that there is a fault that needs sorting. 'unable to reproduce in depot' when we're talking about a brake fault on a passenger train is IMHO a poor situation to say the least.
Perhaps you could be kind enough to ask depot staff; If a driver overshoots a platform or has a spad and the brakes have been reported - will they carry the can for putting the train into service with a known fault?
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Post by setttt on Jun 24, 2005 20:20:38 GMT
Well if that's the case, they're gonna have to take a drivers word for it that there is a fault that needs sorting. 'unable to reproduce in depot' when we're talking about a brake fault on a passenger train is IMHO a poor situation to say the least. Perhaps you could be kind enough to ask depot staff; If a driver overshoots a platform or has a spad and the brakes have been reported - will they carry the can for putting the train into service with a known fault? Surely a driver can refuse to take a train out if he/she feels that his/her train is unfit for service?
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Post by Colin on Jun 24, 2005 21:47:56 GMT
If a driver reports the brakes as needing attention, that's his opinion.
As you say, neither the fitters nor us drivers can test the brakes at full speed until after we leave the depot. What I am suggesting is this: I as the next person to drive that passenger train, would like to feel comfortable in the knowledge that my train is safe to have passengers on, that it will stop, and that my job is safe regarding red signals. Now I check the defect card as I prep the train for service and I see that the brakes have been reported - but not checked. You suggest I refuse it - the depot say they can't check it.
Next move?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2005 0:14:05 GMT
From your side of the fence? Sorry, are you actually a qualified driver? I mean the operational side. I recall only one job being sen back NDF this week, and that was because the train with the defect was drawing down to the neck when we reached it. If there was a defect, surely the driver shouldn't have confirmed to East Cabin that his train was ready for service? Some defects only show when the train is motoring. Not all defects will show when a train is not moving. Since it is not possible to reach those speeds in the depot, how, may I ask, is it the fitters' fault that the fault cannot be reproduced? As what has already been said, it should be taken for a test run. From the likes of Northfields, Acton and back isnt particually hard? I agree with Colin, its not good enough to say cannot reproduce, when you are talking about such essential systems as brakes.
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Post by setttt on Jun 25, 2005 10:13:03 GMT
As what has already been said, it should be taken for a test run. From the likes of Northfields, Acton and back isnt particually hard? Didn't you read my previous post? Testing is only carried out on trains which have had a long-term fault which is being monitored (from what I've been told).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2005 14:34:07 GMT
As what has already been said, it should be taken for a test run. From the likes of Northfields, Acton and back isnt particually hard? Didn't you read my previous post? Testing is only carried out on trains which have had a long-term fault which is being monitored (from what I've been told). I don't want to start a tennis match here where we're just knocking back and forth the same argument, but one of the problems we face on the District is the fact we don't have any sort of proper defect book. All we have is a flimsy card. There are no serial numbers on the cards for audit purposes, and therefore if the depot keep seeing the same defect marked on the card, that card will mysteriously disappear. Obviously I couldn't possibly comment on whether the disappearance was deliberate or not. If I get a train with a defect now, I always make a note of it in my diary for future reference. Note that this isn't a dig at you, Seth! I'm just passing comment on procedures in general, particularly on the District line.
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Post by q8 on Jun 25, 2005 16:24:37 GMT
The disappearing trouble card!!....... Ah this animal has been around for at least 60 years and probably longer. It normally lurks in a drivers cab but has been known to break out in the trembles when something resembling "work" is noted on it's surface. It then seems to mysteriously vanish and there is speculation that it copies the oozlum bird but to date no-one has heard the POP!
In the sixties it was not unusual for it to be found hiding over the speaker of the loudaphone suppressing the MG whine over that piece of equipment. I was also seen to be skulking over the duplex gauge on COP stocks dimming the very bright light therein. On Q stock the thing went to pieces completely and employed itself stopping the rattles of the number plates and SCD.
Perhaps it has now learnt to disappear to the Piccadilly line to usurp the position of empty crisp packets!!
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Post by Tom on Jun 25, 2005 18:07:08 GMT
2. Is Northfields unique amongst LU depots in that it has vending machines instead of a proper cantine? Further to my earlier post, it would appear that no depot in Stockholm has a proper canteen either, having visited every T-Bana depot today distributing sweets in Honour of SAC (Igelkotten's Union) celebrating their 95th Anniversary.
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Post by Colin on Jun 25, 2005 22:09:39 GMT
Funny you should mention the disappearing defect card Alan - I was driving 7514 today, and on the front of the card it said 'PBF' (previous book full, another favourite). I had to laugh - the previous card/log book was still in the cab with two comments barely filling a quarter of the Two pages available!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2005 22:25:30 GMT
I had a card a few nights ago which had 'previous book lost' written on the front, and underneath some wag had written "We don't believe you, get road fitter to confirm" ;D
I bet that's another card which mysteriously diappeared as well!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2005 0:18:37 GMT
Yes Colin! another favourite is if there is a defect on there that has been reported over and over again, a new book suddenly appears!
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