|
|
Post by meteorological on May 10, 2006 15:43:40 GMT
The last week has been a disaster on HMP Metropolitan line, we've had 1. Track replacement work botched at Farringdon leading to 2 A60s hitting the headwall even under a 15mph speed restriction.  2. 2 days of absolute chaos because the weather was a bit warm.  3. Major points failure at Baker Street trapping A60s in the city and again absolute chaos.  So my question is, are Metronet doing a good job? ;D |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2006 15:55:17 GMT
Doesn't look like it, does it!! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by meteorological on May 10, 2006 17:00:46 GMT
Doesn't look like it, does it!! ;D You might be a new Labour supporter, best week ever etc, tractor production is up comrade |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2006 17:29:03 GMT
.....and what would the situation be like if PPP and the recent investment didn't exist. Possibly worse?
|
|
|
|
Post by meteorological on May 10, 2006 18:16:53 GMT
.....and what would the situation be like if PPP and the recent investment didn't exist. Possibly worse? The problem as I see it is that the link between the train operator LUL, and the service provider now Metronet and Tubelines has been broken, we now work against each other, if a train is taken out of service it's not lets fix whats wrong with it the attitude is whos fault is it. LUL do not have any real controls over the performance of the PPP companies, they have chosen rather than fix the track and trains to tart up the stations, that has taken too long to complete as well, and made very little difference to the travelling publics journey, not a lot of point in having a nice station if there's no trains! The PPP companies seem to me to have no care about their performance, the penalties are so small that they count for nothing where is the incentive to actually improve the service? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2006 18:24:32 GMT
There have been persistent asset failures on the sub surface, which has been very bad in the past week.
Even today there were delays to all the SSR lines coz of speed restrictions related to hot weather. Apparently they are exacerbated by Metronet not having enough staff to inspect/remedy the track. That I find bad and a symptom of poor planning, and expecting LU to miraculously operate around their very short notice with no disruption. I feel that the relationship between Metronet and LU has deteriorated alot in the last year.
Today all the Mets into Aldgate were reversing at Moorgate, all the NB Amershams were routed via Harrow No. 1 platform so as to avoid the hot weather speed restriction (I presume) on the Harrow points Amersham trains normally use, and to recover some lost time, all fast Amersham trains were asked to non stop at Wembley Park. Line controller had a tough task managing that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2006 22:58:18 GMT
no staff im off sick again ;D ;D  |
|
|
|
Post by mowat on May 12, 2006 12:24:26 GMT
I am begining think there is only one way to sort out the buses and underground, bring back the London Passenger Transport Board.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2006 17:37:15 GMT
I am begining think there is only one way to sort out the buses and underground, bring back the London Passenger Transport Board. And how is that going to help? Would you like to bring back gate stock as well? |
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on May 12, 2006 18:28:52 GMT
CSLR made an extreamly interesting post on the pro's and cons of the gate stock somewhere else on this forum.
|
|
|
|
Post by mowat on May 15, 2006 11:06:34 GMT
I am begining think there is only one way to sort out the buses and underground, bring back the London Passenger Transport Board. And how is that going to help? Would you like to bring back gate stock as well? It would help by having the buses and underground run and owned by one company insted of having the mess that we have now i.e. one company owns the system (LUL), two operate the system (Metonet/tubelines), and in the case of the Northern and Jubilee a further company (Alstom) owns the trains! |
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on May 15, 2006 11:39:00 GMT
Not arguing the politics, the situation you describe works surprisingly well on NR. By no means perfect (better now Railtrack has been replaced by Network Rail), but nothing like as bad as it is becoming on LU .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2006 20:42:17 GMT
The last week has been a disaster on HMP Metropolitan line, we've had 1. Track replacement work botched at Farringdon leading to 2 A60s hitting the headwall even under a 15mph speed restriction.
2. 2 days of absolute chaos because the weather was a bit warm. 3. Major points failure at Baker Street trapping A60s in the city and again absolute chaos. So my question is, are Metronet doing a good job? ;D So my question is, would you rather have a train hit the deck cause of a rail buckling underneath it, or some emergency speed restrictions as a safety measure? Sam |
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on May 15, 2006 23:49:29 GMT
.....and what would the situation be like if PPP and the recent investment didn't exist. Possibly worse? The problem as I see it is that the link between the train operator LUL, and the service provider now Metronet and Tubelines has been broken, we now work against each other, if a train is taken out of service it's not lets fix whats wrong with it the attitude is whos fault is it. LUL do not have any real controls over the performance of the PPP companies, they have chosen rather than fix the track and trains to tart up the stations, that has taken too long to complete as well, and made very little difference to the travelling publics journey, not a lot of point in having a nice station if there's no trains! The PPP companies seem to me to have no care about their performance, the penalties are so small that they count for nothing where is the incentive to actually improve the service? Whilst there may be an element of 'working against each other' at a local operational level that certainly isn't the case at a corporate level. LU work very closely with MRSSL/BCV and tubelines and have formed quite strong and close working relationships. As for not fixing it - that just isn't true, the depots are working harder than ever (sometimes against the odds) to meet service levels. IMHO train failures are far fewer today than they were going back 10 years ago. At the end of the day, the depots and the trainside staff were always a little at odds with eachother even when we were all LU. The trainside would say the depot did nothing other than stick 'NDF' (No Defect Found) on the card, and the depot would say that train staff booked non existent defects just to get out of a trip! Under PPP LU most definately do have control over the Infraco's, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise. Infact we have the ultimate control, we have the option to kick them out once every 7 years or fine them heavily if they fail to meet the very stringent laid out targets in the PPP contract. The first option to give them the boot is coming up, if we did that to them at this stage it would bankrupt them without a doubt - so LU have a lot of control. The PPP companies only way of making money is to avoid penalties and meet or exceed their targets, it's that simple. So their incentive is to ensure that they do not fail, if they do they get heavily fined. Like it or not, PPP is not some contract pulled out of the air - LU have an entire library of contractual requirements and stipulations that have been signed for and agreed to by the Infraco's, they are locked down tight. |
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on May 16, 2006 0:00:34 GMT
Just a small point here, but it is worth noting that the majority of the Infraco's staff are all ex-LU anyway. Even today, Infraco staff and LU staff frequently transfer in and out from one company to another, it really is very incestuous. The Infraco's are not some faceless evil organisations, they are staffed by dedicated, professional, and experienced railway personnel.
In fact LU had big problems in the early days of PPP because the Infraco's attracted a lot of our staff (engineers etc) away with big salaries. For a time we had a bit of a gap in some areas where staff had transferred. This resulted in the Infraco's inadvertently having the upper hand as we played catch up to both the skills gap and the contractual obligations.
LU have now regained the upper hand in both areas, this is why the Infraco's are now locked down - we have got smarter pretty quickly!
|
|
