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Post by littlecog on Nov 5, 2007 17:15:14 GMT
Thinking about Stratford, its going to be abit messy come 2010 when the DLR platforms next to the Jubilee start working. Theres going to be ticket barriers either side of the DLR low level platforms but they're going to have to install the stand alone touch in machines for customers using DLR on either side. Its the only way you can fairly do it as customers joining the DLR will need to touch in to avoid getting charged for uncompleted jounerys. Can anyone come up with a better idea for this tho? I can't. What are the rules for the DLR? For example, if one touches in at Tottenham Court Road, uses the Central Line to go to Bank where one changes to the DLR, getting off (and touching out) at Westferry while not touching in/out at Bank, one is correctly charged. Is this how it's supposed to work, or are the ticket validators at Bank compulsory? Will it overcharge by charging for the Tottenham Court Road-Bank journey separately, and then undercharge when exiting at Westferry? Should I, in further example, be using the DLR validators at Stratford as well as the main ticket gates? I've had problems with the first example - when I attempted a completely separate journey from Canary Wharf DLR I was then charged again for Tottenham Court Road - Canary Wharf journey, rather than being charged the entry £4. (I don't recall whether it was more or less than two hours between the entry and the claimed exit.) In other words - do you *have* to use *any* validators you come across in the path of your journey, or do you only have to use entry or exit gates? (Someone suggested replacing the Central Line high level platforms with low level ones, thereby separating the TFL and Network Rail sections.) If it's entry/exit that's watched surely what would be needed would be to install Oyster machines in the two underpasses - or if the Central Line is dropped, move the ones currently on the platforms there - as the people needing it will be those with tickets from places north, and those entering the network for the DLR will have SFD marked on the Oyster already, coming through the main gateline...
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Post by happybunny on Nov 5, 2007 17:34:49 GMT
As far as I know you should never touch an oyster machine mid-journey.. unless crossing from a oyster to ticket journey... an example of this would be if going from Oxford Circus to Romford via change at Stratford. You touch in at Oxford Circus and when arriving at Stratford you have to touch out on the platform before getting on the overground train, but if say you have to go on the other side of the gates to buy a ticket for the overground train you don't touch out on the platform because you will do it on the gates downstairs.
You should not touch a oyster machine mid-journey or the system will think you are exiting there, then when you come to you're real exit and touch out it will charge £4 or whatever it is because it doesn't know where u started.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 17:49:14 GMT
I had this problem once when I was going from West India Quays to Bond Street Via Waterloo (Via DLR and Waterloo & City, I know it was the long way round). Problem was the barrier at Waterloo wouldn't let me out and I had to go to the ticket office to have the guy behind sort out my Oyster before Changing lines at Waterloo.
Next time I had the DLR in a journey was when I went from Plaistow to Poplar. When I got my ticket inspected at West Ham i asked about my journey that day and was told when you change from Tube to DLR you need to touch in on the DLR readers. Once at Canning Town I couldn't find any readers on the DLR but found at Poplar than the journey had been charged correctly.
As far as I can tell you touch in on the DLR when theres Oyster readers to the platforms (IE Bank, Canary Wharf) but you don't in certain stations (IE Canning Town). Now until I asked I didn't know you had to touch in when you changed to the DLR but knew the touch in/out at the start/end. But I don't think this is true on the Tube when I touched in for the Waterloo & City (forgot it didn't run on Sundays) and was charged for an journey that wasn't possible that day.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 5, 2007 17:54:05 GMT
That doesn't always hold true. You have to touch your oyster against the reader to get to or from the Jubilee Line at Stratford, even if interchanging to or from the Central. Similarly you have to pass a gateline to get anywhere from the W&C at Bank. Interchanging to or from the H&C at Paddington is the same (although you do leave LU property there)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 18:13:11 GMT
Now you're getting the problems with Oyster Anyway taken from the TFL website: Customers using pay as you go MUST touch their Oyster card on the reader every time they enter and exit the station. Remember to LISTEN for the single beep and LOOK for the green light. If you don't touch on and off correctly you may pay a higher fare than you have to and you may be liable for a Penalty Fare. You must show your Oyster card to a member of staff when requested to do so. When interchanging between DLR and the Tube or National Rail, touch your Oyster card on the reader at the start and end of every part of your journey to pay the cheapest fare. If you are joining DLR at Bank and are planning to use pay as you go to travel outside of your Travelcard zones, you must touch your Oyster card on the reader on the DLR concourse to ensure you have a valid ticket to travel on DLR. Clear as mud?
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Post by Chris M on Nov 5, 2007 18:36:16 GMT
I just had a look at my journey history online to see how the journeys I made on it land the tube were charged, and they were correct - even though the Journey from Camden Town to Leytonstone via Bank, West India Quay and Stratford doesn't appear as a DLR journey.
However I did spot that the first journey I made that day, from West Kensington to Hammersmith DR hadn't recorded my touching out. This is despite the fact that the barriers were closed and I used my Oyster Card to open the barriers so I could exit the system.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 18:49:30 GMT
I had the same problem with Canary Wharf east end Chris.
And I used to like Oyster. Until I started to use it.
Think one of the possible solutions to the problem is allowing per booked tickets onto the card, ie Im out tomorrow and need a 1-6 travelcard so i preload it on over the web day or more before than when I get to ticket barrer it see travelcard and allows me through. Yes I know there the three day wait when you load stuff onto the system but there must be away around this. Tho personally Ive seen the three day wait become 5 days.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 19:12:16 GMT
I think that Oyster will only charge you for a single journey if you interchange from DLR to Jubilee line at Canary Wharf. You have to touch out at Canary Wharf DLR presumably.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 19:24:05 GMT
Now you're getting the problems with Oyster Anyway taken from the TFL website: Customers using pay as you go MUST touch their Oyster card on the reader every time they enter and exit the station. Remember to LISTEN for the single beep and LOOK for the green light. If you don't touch on and off correctly you may pay a higher fare than you have to and you may be liable for a Penalty Fare. You must show your Oyster card to a member of staff when requested to do so. When interchanging between DLR and the Tube or National Rail, touch your Oyster card on the reader at the start and end of every part of your journey to pay the cheapest fare. If you are joining DLR at Bank and are planning to use pay as you go to travel outside of your Travelcard zones, you must touch your Oyster card on the reader on the DLR concourse to ensure you have a valid ticket to travel on DLR. Clear as mud? Re-reading this again, does this mean you touch out at Bank then after leaving the DLR? Hmmm try doing that when its busy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 19:57:49 GMT
Half the time the validators at Bank ain't working or are switched off anyway; the one which DOES work is not always the one on the direct line of exiting the area...
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 5, 2007 20:07:12 GMT
Speaking as retired staff I think Oyster was a great concept, however, the implementation seems to be haphazard and confused. It would work far better under a flat fare system and I really can't see why there can't be such a system operating across Greater London. It could save an awful lot of operating costs especially if Oyster was made the only available option.
Luckily I have a retired staff Oyster but as I live more than 100 miles from London it has only been used for one bus journey since it was issued in 2005. I am not likely to use it often as the main line is more than 10 miles away and the local bus service is just 3 or 4 buses a day and no Sunday services, in any case I couldn't afford the train fares on my pension more than once or twice a year!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 20:12:08 GMT
Half the time the validators at Bank ain't working or are switched off anyway; the one which DOES work is not always the one on the direct line of exiting the area... I'm greatful to the poor staff who have to sort out this mess!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 20:25:55 GMT
Huh, just think what the fixer bods have to contend with on the Tramlink Oyster readers! It's not the fact the thing has failed, its the fact the thing has gone for a walk or been booted off its mountings...
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 5, 2007 20:31:57 GMT
Huh, just think what the fixer bods have to contend with on the Tramlink Oyster readers! It's not the fact the thing has failed, its the fact the thing has gone for a walk or been booted off its mountings... As another of my hobbies is Street Furniture I'd like to see such things properly protected with alarms and cameras and I'd put the vandals away at their own expense for a minimum of one year and then make them do community service every day for 3 months.
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Post by littlecog on Nov 15, 2007 13:31:13 GMT
Huh, just think what the fixer bods have to contend with on the Tramlink Oyster readers! It's not the fact the thing has failed, its the fact the thing has gone for a walk or been booted off its mountings... As another of my hobbies is Street Furniture I'd like to see such things properly protected with alarms and cameras and I'd put the vandals away at their own expense for a minimum of one year and then make them do community service every day for 3 months. What's the specified maximum distance between readers and cards allowed to be? I smell a solution involving strong thick plastic and steel... Still, at least TfL are clear about the DLR issues - touch in when you join the DLR or you'll come unstuck. And I did, consistently. Still - it would be nice to tell the CSAs that they can't actually resolve anything but the last journey, instead of banning them from sending off such unfixable Oysters as faulty and not insisting on an actually useful error message from Westinghouse on the terminals...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 14:09:03 GMT
Here's a question for you, do you need to touch the readers when you change for the Overground? IE like when I did at Richmond when changing from the District to Overground?
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Post by happybunny on Nov 15, 2007 14:11:15 GMT
If you're journey is all PAYG then id probably say no you don't. ... However I don't know why you would ever change at Richmond from District to Overground.... Gunnersbury maybe
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2007 22:49:42 GMT
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Post by suncloud on Nov 26, 2007 10:23:14 GMT
Good news if I move out to Watford (which I'm thinking about), especially for when I commute to Sussex-shire.
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