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Post by ilya on Oct 26, 2007 22:50:09 GMT
Hello everyone! I think this is the best place where to put this topic. So here you can ask all your questions about Moscow Subway. And now, for the first post, let me say some words about our system  Opened on 15th May 1935, Moscow Subway today became a very well planned system with 12 lines and 173 stations. Here you can see the map ( modified: 've found an official onemodified Jan'08: new map uploaded) which can be met in every car):  Each day more than 9 mln passengers use the Subway. As we have the only branch in the whole system, the time distance on every line between trains in peak hours is 80 secs, and it's not that easy to drive strictly on time +- 5 secs (!) . Why there are so many people in the Subway? That's due to unbelieveable traffic jams on most of the city streets (sometimes you may need about two hours only to drive for about 200-300 metres distance), and of course due to chaotic behaviour of bus, trolleybus and tramway routes, because they also stuck in these traffic jams. So the only way not to be late to your work is to 'take your legs to your hands' (as we often say) and move yourself towards the nearest subway station. The average distance between stations is from 1,5 to 2 kilometres, but in the city centre it is reduced to 800-1000 metres. The smallest distance between stations is 400 metres and the biggest today is 3200 metres (on December 24th we are opening Strogino station. Distance between Krilatskoye and Strogino will be 6400 metres (!) ) We've got 4 lines with historical stations associated with royal palaces (red, green, dark-blue, circle lines). Here you can easily look for the photos: www.metro.ru/stations/ (click for any station of lines 2,3,5 and the central ones of the line 1) Some technical aspects. We have a three-rail system (850 V). Trains are made up of 6, 7 or 8 cars (or of 3,4,5 articulated 81-740 cars (3*81-740 = 4 standart, 4*81-740 = 6 standart, 5*81-740 = 7 standart cars)). The platform length on all of the underground-level stations is 160 metres except the light-blue line branch which consists of two 120-metre stations. 6-car trains in use at the Circle, light-blue and sea-blue (the one of three stops) lines 7-car trains in use at the deep-blue and red lines Only 3*81-740 trains in use on the L1 line (small extension of 5 stops at the bottom of the map) 8-car trains in use at other lines. Some photos: 81-717 car (the middle ones without cab are 81-714)  YEZH car (cars only with driver's cab built)  BTW, the doors are opened and closed by driver (on the light- and dark-blue lines by driver's assistant). At peak hours it is quite usual that passengers are given a kick with the doors to get on faster, because the driver has to prevent any delays. Often the 'Mind the doors are closing. Next stop XXX' announcement starts the same time the doors start to open. And it's quite normal that drivers in peak hours open the doors when the train is going under 5-7 kmph for passengers to get off more quickly. (BTW, during the 72 years we've had a few cases when the 'wrong' doors were opened, but nobody was injured. Nevertheless, it's written "Don't touch" on any car door.) Fares. We do not have zones and we're not planning to install such a feature. Today we pay 17 roubles (1 pound is 50 roubles) per a single trip ticket. The ticket types are: Single-trip ticket Double-trip ticket 5-trip ticket 10-trip ticket 20-trip ticket 60-trip ticket 70-trip monthly ticket (i.e.you can ride only 70 times and only in one month period) Complex monthly ticket (70 trips per subway and any number of trips per either municipal bus or trolleybus or tramway) The N-trip tickets (except 1,2,5 and Complex) are made as 'Ultralight' tickets. In fact, that is a ticket like a smart-card, but made of carton. And the interesting fact is that it cannot be used twice, so when you ride your last trip, you may either threw the ticket to the rubbish or take it as a souvenir (as we usually do, don't we?  ). The system of suburban trains is not very well connected with the subway, but there are transfer stations for any suburban railway direction (suburban trains may transfer people up to 250 km from Moscow without any other interchanges) and to every Main Station. It's quite interesting that in Soviet Union there were no automated fare control on the suburban trains, and ticket offices worked in strange ways, so the people simply stopped paying any fares to using these trains. Today it's funny to watch two-three hundred people jumping down from the platform onto the tracks to leave the station not via the automated fare control. I assume people will never pay to the suburban service ;D (today I think more for the worst service imaginable: do I need to pay 50-100 roubles for the ticket to enter the platform and find a small piece of paper which used to be an ad informing there will be no trains, for example, for a couple of hours? Even though trains to some suburban directions come three or four times a day!) _________ This is just a very little of the system. I will try to answer any of your questions Regards, Ilya, Moscow |
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Post by suncloud on Oct 27, 2007 8:12:01 GMT
Thank you that was very interesting. To a London Underground user the freqency and punctuality of the Moscow trains seems wonderful.'
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Post by ilya on Oct 27, 2007 10:20:37 GMT
Yes, certainly it does. And this is just due to having no branches (except the only on the light-blue line, where trains run only three-four times per hour) and due to making some tricks with signals.
Just an example: while leaving the station, the train can reach such speed that it will pass the exit signal (forgot how you call them - a signal that is placed right after station) with no matter if something happens. There is a special device which controls the leaving the station train's speed. So if the leaving train reaches such speed, then the entrance signal (one before the station) will 'open' before the last car passes the exit signal and allow the next train to enter the station.
During the peak hour it's very interesting to watch the last car of the train get into the next tunnel and after 7-8 second time the first car of the next train coming out from the previous tunnel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2007 17:25:31 GMT
How old are those YEZH cars? They look wonderful!
Thank you for this information...
The first signal on a station platform, is generally called a 'platform starter' signal here...
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Post by ilya on Oct 27, 2007 19:00:02 GMT
The YEZH ("Еж") cars (as well as YEM "Ем", YEM508t "Ем508т", YEM509 "Ем509", YEZH3 "Еж3" and many other modifications which all differ from each other in very little) are of early 1970s. And BTW there is one car of YE type ("Е") which is still being used (№3605) to travel passengers. The prototype E cars differ with door displacement and windows (instead of one whole window there are two 1/2-windows and there is no window after the last door) and the one car I'm talking of is of year 1966. Here's a photo of YE №4752 (which is now out of service):  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 2:04:55 GMT
the time distance on every line between trains in peak hours is 80 secs, and it's not that easy to drive strictly on time +- 5 secs (!) . They are actually timetabled at 95sec headways on the busiest lines. Still very impressive though! Headways of less than 95secs have been operated in the past but were too difficult to maintain. This web page lists Russian metro frequencies:- www.mrl.ucsb.edu/~yopopov/transit/frequency.html |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 6:35:33 GMT
Compared to the underground them trains look more interesting, cool system too.......
Any insight to what colours mean what.....?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 7:43:40 GMT
Thanks for the information - I visit Budapest fairly often (although not as often I'd like), where the M2 and M3 metro lines are run using ex-Moscow stock ('??' cars, I think) ... it's nice to find out more about their 'home' location -j |
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Post by Dmitri on Oct 28, 2007 11:00:34 GMT
How old are those YEZH cars? They look wonderful! More than 30... but A stock is older anyway ;D. Compared to the underground them trains look more interesting But more uniform.  If you mean colours on the map, than nothing... just colours ... Thanks for the information - I visit Budapest fairly often (although not as often I'd like), where the M2 and M3 metro lines are run using ex-Moscow stock ('??' cars, I think) Not exactly - Budapest cars were built between 1969 and 1972 specially for the Budapest Metro. They were designated as Ev ("E-Vengersky" - "E-Hungarian"), one of the differences is gauge - 1435 mm instead of 1520 mm. The whole batch was comprised of ~100 cars. |
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Post by ilya on Oct 28, 2007 14:53:25 GMT
Still operated on Orange, Violet, Red, Dark-green, Grey lines (37 or 38 pairs of trains per hour at peaks). The train starts form the platform at 1 min 7-10 secs and reaches the headway clock resetting point at 1 min 20 secs. I'm having three hours travelling via the subway's busiest lines every day In the past, they used to have experiments of 60 pairs of trains per hour on one of the lines - that was the whoooa! And because of having troubles with reversing trains fast enough, that experiment was ended. But you can easily count the headway if we have 60 tph in one direction |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 19:36:25 GMT
Not exactly - Budapest cars were built between 1969 and 1972 specially for the Budapest Metro. They were designated as Ev ("E-Vengersky" - "E-Hungarian"), one of the differences is gauge - 1435 mm instead of 1520 mm. The whole batch was comprised of ~100 cars. Ahh, mea culpa - shall feed that back to the person who gave me the information. Doesn't detract from the interesting information, though |
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Post by ilya on Oct 28, 2007 21:15:45 GMT
I think I should add some information about the other pieces of rolling stock. Except 81-717 and YEZH cars (with more than ten different modifications including re-built cars) we've got two other types of rolling stock. Here they are: 81-720 "Yauza" (in use only on light green line, first three cars made in 1993)  ___ and 81-740 "Roosich" (first cars made in 2002 for L1 line, now can be also met at the light-blue and dark-blue lines)  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 21:53:10 GMT
Any photographs of the inside of the driver cab on the website?
*must learn Russian*
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 9:53:03 GMT
37 or 38 pairs of trains per hour at peaks. 38tph = 95sec headways What is the minimum time on the headway clock when the train arrives at the station? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 9:54:17 GMT
Russian translates quite well in English when using on-line translators such as Altavista. |
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Post by ilya on Oct 30, 2007 16:22:11 GMT
Well, actually it differs. On the lines where there is a Automated Locomotive Signalling system with Automated Ruling of Speed (ALS ARS) (it's a system quite simple for understanding. There are several lamps at the driver's cab, which show the allowed speed at this track section and the allowed speed on the upcoming one (so driver clearly understands if there is need to slow down). If the driver asleeps the speed restriction, the system corrects the train's speed automatically, but then the driver is going to have troubles), it is a usual matter that the first car of the next train comes out from the tunnel at 0.21-0.25 at least (and the last car of the previos has gone to the tunnel at 0.14 (if nothing prevents the train to accelerate, e.g.a speed restriction)).
On other lines where classical signals are used it usually is something between 0.25-0.30 at least, but there are stations where they make tricks with signalling (one of them I've described before), so there it is also reduced to 0.21-0.25.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2007 22:55:43 GMT
Very similar sounding to the French TGV in-cab signalling TvM. [Transmission Voie Machine]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 7:17:00 GMT
Well, actually it differs. On the lines where there is a Automated Locomotive Signalling system with Automated Ruling of Speed (ALS ARS) (it's a system quite simple for understanding. There are several lamps at the driver's cab, which show the allowed speed at this track section and the allowed speed on the upcoming one (so driver clearly understands if there is need to slow down). If the driver asleeps the speed restriction, the system corrects the train's speed automatically, but then the driver is going to have troubles), it is a usual matter that the first car of the next train comes out from the tunnel at 0.21-0.25 at least (and the last car of the previos has gone to the tunnel at 0.14 (if nothing prevents the train to accelerate, e.g.a speed restriction)). On other lines where classical signals are used it usually is something between 0.25-0.30 at least, but there are stations where they make tricks with signalling (one of them I've described before), so there it is also reduced to 0.21-0.25. Thanks, and what about the time on the clock of when the following train actually stops at the platform (i.e time from wheel start of departing train, to wheel stop of the following train)? Very similar sounding to the French TGV in-cab signalling TvM. [Transmission Voie Machine] Probably closer to SACEM, a cab-signalling system used on RER A in Paris, itself a modern version of speed controlled multiple home signalling. As far as I'm aware the Moscow Metro signalling has a large range of speed codes. |
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Post by ilya on Nov 1, 2007 18:01:58 GMT
Not very large indeed, I think probably it's due to we are Metro not the TGV There are several codes: No Signal (happens if the ALS ARS device on the driver's carriage is broken, or if for some cases there are more than one train on the current track section - for example, due to putting trains one after another at the reversal tracks for spending a night there) - 0 - 40kmph - 60kmph - 70kmph - 80kmph (or on some trains it shows '90', but it means 80 nevertheless as 80 is the max.allowed speed on the whole network). I don't know exactly, maybe just never minded that ))) I think not less than plus 10 seconds to what it was when the first car got out of the tunnel. And it may differ, because the next train may be coming out to the station at high or low speed, if there is a curve or straight track before it, for example. Nevertheless I will try to notice the time next time I use the Metro. P.S.November 1st. Today I found that I'm an idiot, too. I've spent 40 minutes to pay for my monthly student card... |
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Post by edwin on Nov 5, 2007 17:27:43 GMT
How come the trains in Moscow are so loud despite being younger than London's oldest (A Stock and 1967 stock)
And if all the platforms are 160m how come some lines have longer trains than others?
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Post by Dmitri on Nov 5, 2007 19:22:01 GMT
And if all the platforms are 160m how come some lines have longer trains than others? A train may be shorter than a platform . |
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Post by edwin on Nov 5, 2007 20:39:02 GMT
And if all the platforms are 160m how come some lines have longer trains than others? A train may be shorter than a platform . I thought that, but it seems a bit silly to have long platforms and short trains when it's such a busy system! |
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Post by Dmitri on Nov 5, 2007 21:22:27 GMT
it seems a bit silly to have long platforms and short trains when it's such a busy system! Not much worse than the DLR way when a rebuild is required to add one more car . In short, on the lines where 6- and 7-car trains run, it is either not needed or impossible to add more cars. I'll spare details to avoid boring you to death ;D. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 14:17:47 GMT
If you mean colours on the map, than nothing... just colours ... There is a story behind the circle line, I think. Or at least there's an urban legend that Stalin got a tour of the Moscow Metro system back then, and when asked what he thought of the system, he put his cup of coffee on the map they were showing him. The coffee cup left a brown circle on the map connecting all the other lines. This was seen as a sort of eureka-moment, and the circle line was built, and still appears as a brown circle on the map. Anyway, that's just an urban myth I'm pretty sure, but a pretty nice one! |
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Post by Dmitri on Nov 6, 2007 15:01:11 GMT
The coffee cup left a brown circle on the map connecting all the other lines. This was seen as a sort of eureka-moment, and the circle line was built, and still appears as a brown circle on the map. ...And, by a very lucky coincidence, a coffee circle happened to connect 7 busiest mainline terminals ;D (2 other ones are not busy at all). |
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Post by ilya on Nov 7, 2007 19:43:49 GMT
But there is certain reason for it. On the Circle line, for example, there are only deep-level stations and only two of them with full-length central halls. Others have small central halls (about 2,5-3-car length) and passengers are too lazy to make few steps to the first or to the last car. Today we have 6-car trains on the Circle line, and only the 3rd ant the 4th cars are quite full of passengers, the rest ones are rather free. In spite of the fact it's impossible to teach 9 mln people to board not only the 2 middle cars of the train, but all the 6, there's no need for extra cars.
Trains of 7 cars are in use at the red, deep-blue and light-green lines just because they don't need the 8th car very much, but I think in two-three years the trains will be lengthened.
On the Fili line, trains of 6 cars in use because of too short platforms on some overground stations (maybe it wasn't planned the line would have many passengers. Nevertheless, the December 2007 will bring us the solution of this line's problem. The deep-blue line will take over last three stations of the Fili (light-blue) line, and its 7-car or maybe 8-car trains will run there)
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Post by edwin on Nov 9, 2007 14:17:56 GMT
But there is certain reason for it. On the Circle line, for example, there are only deep-level stations and only two of them with full-length central halls. Others have small central halls (about 2,5-3-car length) and passengers are too lazy to make few steps to the first or to the last car. Today we have 6-car trains on the Circle line, and only the 3rd ant the 4th cars are quite full of passengers, the rest ones are rather free. In spite of the fact it's impossible to teach 9 mln people to board not only the 2 middle cars of the train, but all the 6, there's no need for extra cars. Trains of 7 cars are in use at the red, deep-blue and light-green lines just because they don't need the 8th car very much, but I think in two-three years the trains will be lengthened. On the Fili line, trains of 6 cars in use because of too short platforms on some overground stations (maybe it wasn't planned the line would have many passengers. Nevertheless, the December 2007 will bring us the solution of this line's problem. The deep-blue line will take over last three stations of the Fili (light-blue) line, and its 7-car or maybe 8-car trains will run there) For a system which operates over 30tph in the peaks I find it hard to believe that some lines don't need extra capacity, but i'll take your word for it. I don't mean to sound facetious, but were any of the original stations constructed via slave labour? They were built during Stalin's reign after all. Thanks a lot for your replies. |
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Post by Dmitri on Nov 9, 2007 14:52:31 GMT
For a system which operates over 30tph in the peaks I find it hard to believe that some lines don't need extra capacity, but i'll take your word for it. Some lines do need some extra capacity (e.g. 'green' and 'purple'), but they already run at maximum. And overloaded entrances and interchanges pose another big problem. Note that 'dark blue' and 'light green' lines are currently being extended - westwards and northwards, respectively. No, they were constructed using young enthusiasts' labour - much more efficient, and no wardens required . |
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Post by edwin on Nov 9, 2007 23:14:04 GMT
For a system which operates over 30tph in the peaks I find it hard to believe that some lines don't need extra capacity, but i'll take your word for it. Some lines do need some extra capacity (e.g. 'green' and 'purple'), but they already run at maximum. And overloaded entrances and interchanges pose another big problem. Why are these lines busier than the others? And thanks for the replies. |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 10, 2007 11:10:44 GMT
Very interesting are there any pictures of the actual signals, are there signal cabins as we know it or control rooms? and lastly I remember seeing a TV programme some years back that mentioned stations having big iron doors at various places around the stations which could seal off from outside, this was to have enabled protection from flooding and also to stop normal persons using so that the high ranking officials could use system?
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