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Post by q8 on Jan 2, 2006 22:38:11 GMT
In the service day, 17 minutes actually fits just as well as 8, 10 or 12 minutes. For example, the Met/Circle/H&C in the Baker Street Control Area (or directly adjacent to it) is booked to run roughly between the hours of 0432 and 0130. That is 20 hours and 58 minutes. Or to put it another way, 1258 minutes. Or to put it another way, 74 x 17 ;D  We've been on this subject before, and in light of allowing others who weren't around at the time to enjoy and examine the discussion, I won't add any more, except to say that there is a reason why we do things and a reason why on most days they work ;D You know something Citysig? We'll never agree on this will we?? ;D ;D ;D |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2006 22:59:20 GMT
Well there we have all sides of the picture don't we? All are valid and acceptable. However a lot of 'out-of-town' reversing point are under used in the off peak.. Take Dagenham East for instance. It is far easier [ and quicker] to reverse a train there than via Barking Sidings. I know there would be an extra 10 minutes running time each way to/from DE but that would be partially off set by the fact that a Driver just has to get out of a cab one end and walk along the platform to the other instead of walking through the train and having to open/close all the communicating doors while so doing. Dagenham East also allows a driver to take a PNR if needed instead of calling a out a spare man en route to do the same. Let's also examine another of the proposals - Olympia. A single platform partly single track branch currently running a 15 minute headway, which would be changed to a 10min headway. By trying to up the throughput of trains without making adjustments to the line's capacity you're asking for trouble. Think back to the CW58 work in 1999 when the original plan was to run the Circle Line Wimbledon - Edgware Road - Aldgate - Earl's Court - Olympia, on a fairly intense headway. The timetable devised fell apart every day of the week it was used such that the following week the old timetable was re-introduced (albiet without circles), the old programme machine rolls installed and the Earl's Court and Mansion house Signal Operators spent most of the day cancelling circles off. The other issue mentioned is PNRs. Where at Olympia can you take a PNR, or get a cup of tea, or buy a cold drink? Nowhere. Which is why it would be an extremely unpopular reversing point for a large part of the service, as all the Olympia reversers would then take extra time at Earl's Court while their drivers took PNRs or got drinks. Plus there isn't really the demand for anything more than a 15 minute service, so by diverting trains there they will run empty, which is in effect wasting a valuable resource. |
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Post by q8 on Jan 3, 2006 2:06:11 GMT
Oh they are not prposals Tom. Just wondering why they don't use these places more often or get away from donkey's yonks patterns of service.
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Post by q8 on Jan 3, 2006 10:03:42 GMT
Regarding these modern timetables. I seem to recall that SWT did a complete recast of all the services they run and disposed of years old service patterns. This I believe improved things no end. Well why can't LUL schedules office do a similar thing with Tube services?
For instance [and these are ONLY ideas] On the District,
Dagenham E /Barking - Olympia.
Upminster - Richmond.
Tower Hill - Ealing.
Mansion H/Edgware Road - Wimbledon
H&C as now and Circle as now.
12 minute common headways all round, 2 min headway inner area.
Central line
Ealing Bwy - Epping.
W Ruislip - Hainault
Woodford - White City [via Hainault]
Picaddilly and Northern might be a bit more awkward.
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Post by citysig on Jan 3, 2006 10:56:39 GMT
You know something Citysig? We'll never agree on this will we?? ;D ;D ;D You being train crew and me being a signalman, that goes without saying  It's just there is a lot of difference between what you believe you may see from the front of your train, to what we can see in the control room. It's that big picture again ;D No harm in chewing over the matter again though. You never know, maybe one day you'll hit the nail right on the head and we'll nick your idea and start using it ;D ;D |
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Post by q8 on Jan 3, 2006 11:03:57 GMT
Perhaps Citysig a miracle might happen one day and schedules office may actually consult signal controllers and possibly trainmen on the sort of timetable they would like to see? One based on operating convenience and not financial considerations.
I won't hold me breath though.
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 3, 2006 15:07:56 GMT
Picc and Northern couldn't be mucked about with a great deal from what they are now, the only reversing points they have that aren't used are only suitible for short turning (Colindale, Wood Green, South Harrow etc). Isn't there also a contract that a given number of trains must go to Heathrow, too?
On a different note, was the proposal talked about on here (I think anyway) a whole ago to put a third platform in at Ruislip something that's being considered seriously by LUL? I'm sure it would improve the service that way no end.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2006 17:38:10 GMT
Picc and Northern couldn't be mucked about with a great deal from what they are now, the only reversing points they have that aren't used are only suitible for short turning (Colindale, Wood Green, South Harrow etc). Isn't there also a contract that a given number of trains must go to Heathrow, too? On a different note, was the proposal talked about on here (I think anyway) a whole ago to put a third platform in at Ruislip something that's being considered seriously by LUL? I'm sure it would improve the service that way no end. I would have thought that given the low reversing capacity of the Cockfosters end of the Piccadilly, that really the Cockfosters end needs money spending on it rather than the Heathrow/Uxbridge end. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2006 18:25:45 GMT
Regarding these modern timetables. I seem to recall that SWT did a complete recast of all the services they run and disposed of years old service patterns. This I believe improved things no end. Well why can't LUL schedules office do a similar thing with Tube services? Don't forget though that the SWT recast managed to add loads of dwell times at busy stations to avoid getting ahead of timetable. Basingstoke n/b is a good example. I've read elsewhere (sorry can't find exact quote at present) that the service from Twickenham to Waterloo is now slower than 70 years ago. I am a real fan of the relatively new Central timetable- journeys w/b in the evening peak have definitely speeded up, though services do seem to get held at red lights a lot at White City. Would be interested if anyone knows why. Perhaps they've already timetabled in a stop at Park Royal? |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jan 3, 2006 20:13:07 GMT
The reason the Central runs as it does is so that there is a depot on both services for changing over defective stock,if you ran Hainault-West Ruislip both depots would be on the same service.Epping-Ealing,nowhere to get a changeover,and before anyone says White City,they don't stable there off peak anymore.Even if they did you would still have to find a crew to take dud stock back to Ruislip Depot.
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