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Post by starlight73 on Nov 8, 2024 9:33:06 GMT
At the moment the Elizabeth line trains that terminate at Westbourne Park sidings have to have the driver at the front on their way out - this is for the driver to spot trespassers, so they can emergency stop and contact control.
So if unattended operation was brought in for sidings they would need to be satisfied that it's very hard for trespassers to get into the location.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 8, 2024 10:09:54 GMT
At the moment the Elizabeth line trains that terminate at Westbourne Park sidings have to have the driver at the front on their way out - this is for the driver to spot trespassers, so they can emergency stop and contact control. Why is this not required in the other direction from tunnel portal into sidings? |
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Post by xtmw on Nov 8, 2024 18:32:23 GMT
Would unstaffed empty stock workings be OK? Eg to/from siding or depot? If they get stuck, there is no worry about trapped public. In 2016 there were trials on the Jubilee Line which involved the trains moving into the sidings without the operator pressing the twin ATO START buttons. In theory this meant it could be possible for a train to enter a siding without an operator present. This was met with heavy union opposition and strike action was threatened. I think RMT published a statement on this, I'll see if I can find it. |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
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Post by Tom on Nov 8, 2024 19:27:31 GMT
Was there? I know unattended reversing was considered at one point on the Victoria Line (at Seven Sisters) but never progressed to a trial despite the technology being able to support it.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 8, 2024 19:41:05 GMT
The problem with dispatching ERUs, you have 3 trains stuck between two stations, each train packed to capacity. How does an ERU get to the middle train? It just ain't possible. If alternate trains ran without a driver, then the train stuck in the middle would either have an attendant, or could be assisted by the driver of the following train that comes up behind it. |
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Post by xtmw on Nov 8, 2024 19:51:34 GMT
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Post by starlight73 on Nov 8, 2024 23:27:45 GMT
Why is this not required in the other direction from tunnel portal into sidings? I’m not sure… my source for it is this BBC clip: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0cd5q2g. The driver says she has to stay at the front while coming out of the tunnel to the sidings to watch for trespassers. I’m guessing maybe management consider that the driver of the following train would watch for trespassers and that is good enough? Or maybe the risk of hitting a trespasser is considered more significant when the train exits from the tunnel as it suddenly emerges. It would be interesting to hear more about why this is only needed in one direction. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 9, 2024 11:21:29 GMT
This was part of JLU2 which required more trains, and so was abandoned. I presume they were seeking speedy reversal as on the DLR, perhaps of a third of the enhanced service. The driver can change ends faster along the platform than through the inter-car doorways in the siding. They can also start their walk as the train departs the platform, rather than waiting until the train is berthed in the siding. Would this be acceptable to the Unions if all train movements were under the control of the driver, although not in the train? On arrival the driver could leave the train and unlock a control box at the headwall. When the route to the siding clears, the driver could press the two start buttons and observe the train's safe departure, prepared to press a stop button in case of emergency. With the train now out of the platform, the driver could walk the length of the platform to unlock a similar control box at the opposite headwall. A train would not leave the siding without a driver in control at this position. After all, you wouldn't want a train to arrive in the platform if there was no driver present to take it forward. When the siding outlet was clear for movement, the driver would get an indication to press the two start buttons in the control box, and monitor the empty train's arrival, being prepared to press a stop button in case of emergency. For speedy reversal, there could be crew stepping back, so that a driver departs on a train one or two later than the one they arrived on. Why might management go along with such working? Well, it might avoid the cost of platform edge doors to protect the public from unstaffed train movements. |
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