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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 14:49:39 GMT
Part Closure between Queensway / Ealing Broadway / West Ruislip. Anyone know what's exactly going on?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 13, 2021 15:44:29 GMT
Part Closure between Queensway / Ealing Broadway / West Ruislip. Anyone know what's exactly going on? North Acton bullhead rail track replacement and drainage work at White City Marble Arch-Hainault via Newbury Park, every 8-12min Marble Arch-Hainault via Grange Hill, every 20min Queensway-Epping, every 10min These services combine to provide a 4 minute service between Marble Arch-Leytonstone. Trains from Hainault reverse west-east at Marble Arch via the siding. Trains from Epping reverse west-east at Queensway via platform 2.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 14, 2021 14:33:20 GMT
We should have a sweepstake; how long before the points at Queensway fail
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Post by superteacher on Sept 14, 2021 20:43:51 GMT
We should have a sweepstake; how long before the points at Queensway fail Last time it was used for weekend works was 2015 - it held up all weekend I think!
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 14, 2021 21:52:41 GMT
We should have a sweepstake; how long before the points at Queensway fail Here is an off the wall idea: If they are so important, why doesn’t someone make sure they are thoroughly checked? Just a thought.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Sept 15, 2021 0:21:07 GMT
We should have a sweepstake; how long before the points at Queensway fail Here is an off the wall idea: If they are so important, why doesn’t someone make sure they are thoroughly checked? Just a thought. I think the original comments were slightly in jest. From what I gather, the current Queensway crossover was something the Central Line project decided to put in. In many ways it was a bit of an odd choice given the proximity to Marble Arch, and indeed it would be interesting to know what the justification was for providing it. Perhaps when combined with Marble Arch it was thought worthwhile to be able to offer a higher frequency service through the Oxford Street area during a closure at White City - exactly as is in fact happening during the forthcoming engineering works. No doubt this “not really needed” situation contributed to the Central Line Project leaving a couple of issues hanging, with resources likely being targeted to resolving other snags at places where there was actually an impact on the service, as opposed to an obscure reversing facility which the line had quite happily managed without for many years. I think I’m right in saying these issues were at some stage resolved in the 2000s, hence Queensway getting used occasionally from then on, a decade or so after the crossover was put in. As to whether the points are *still* unreliable, we’ll find out the answer to that in a couple of weekends time! Some of the other Central Line project track layouts could also certainly be seen as odd choices. The loop layout at Debden has never really been explained - the ability to reverse a train directly off the westbound platform back to Epping certainly isn’t a valuable move, and I’m not sure the lack of buffer stops contributes in practice to a faster run-in to the siding if that was ever the intention. Ditto Woodford where access to the bay road requires running through 21 road, which wasn’t necessary under the old layout. Having said all that, most of the other layouts I’d say are pretty spot on.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 15, 2021 9:52:58 GMT
The Queensway points failed recently, we were shut down at White City, they decided to turn one around and I ended up stuck at Holborn for 45 minutes. In 18 years I've only ever done that move twice and it has to be done at 10kph maximum.
Queensway is not a particularly good place to terminate trains for passengers, its got two lifts and 123 steps to the surface. On the plus side you can get a bus from there to Shepherd's Bush and White City or you can walk 150 yards to Bayswater, probably not a great deal longer walk than changing at Notting Hill Gate (if the Circle Line is running that weekend). The obvious advantage of Queensway over Marble Arch is that you don't have to tip the passengers out to go up a siding.
I was surprised when they removed Holborn and kept Queensway, Holborn was a lot more useful but I guess a lot more expensive to maintain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 13:00:49 GMT
Part Closure between Queensway / Ealing Broadway / West Ruislip. Anyone know what's exactly going on? North Acton bullhead rail track replacement and drainage work at White City Marble Arch-Hainault via Newbury Park, every 8-12min Marble Arch-Hainault via Grange Hill, every 20min Queensway-Epping, every 10min These services combine to provide a 4 minute service between Marble Arch-Leytonstone. Trains from Hainault reverse west-east at Marble Arch via the siding. Trains from Epping reverse west-east at Queensway via platform 2. No trains reversing at Liverpool Street?
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vincenture
Quiz tryhard, and an advocate for simpler, less complicated rail routes
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Post by vincenture on Sept 15, 2021 13:13:13 GMT
Queensway to Liverpool Street, I doubt that's very time useful
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 13:32:06 GMT
Queensway to Liverpool Street, I doubt that's very time useful Well if someone went wrong with the Queensway crossover, wouldn't it be useful if the service was congested?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Sept 15, 2021 14:03:57 GMT
Queensway to Liverpool Street, I doubt that's very time useful Well if someone went wrong with the Queensway crossover, wouldn't it be useful if the service was congested? Demand patterns are different today compared to the past, which is why regular Liverpool Street reversing disappeared some years ago. It certainly used to be common up to around the 2000s. There’s a lot more off-peak demand east of Liverpool Street nowadays, not least to Westfield / Stratford. Why anyone would want to go there is beyond me, but seemingly people do. Stratford is also a major interchange. This may change a little when Crossrail opens though.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Sept 15, 2021 15:12:46 GMT
Demand is certainly different to the past Around 50 years ago, Marble Arch - Liverpool St shuttles were frequent during the mid-day off peak (probably the most boring duty ever) This would probably compare with a White City - Stratford service today due to changing demand and shopping patterns.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2021 18:41:42 GMT
Queensway to Liverpool Street, I doubt that's very time useful Well if someone went wrong with the Queensway crossover, wouldn't it be useful if the service was congested? No. To reverse W-E at Liverpool Street involves one of two options: Option 1: Reverse on the main line West of the Crossover, holding up the Westbound service for a minimum of four minutes while the Train Operator changes ends. Option 2: Reverse via the sidings, requiring the Train Operator to change ends three times (WB platform, siding, EB Platform), holding up through traffic on both the Eastbound and Westbound roads for a minimum of four minutes each while they do so. If, heaven forbid, there is an issue with the crossover at Queensway this weekend, either the service would be thinned out to cope (lose some of the Hainault via Newbury Park trains to allow the ex-Epping to reverse at Marble Arch) or the Queensway reversers would reverse somewhere more convenient, most likely in Leytonstone middle road, with the additional trains beyond what one needs to run an Epping to Leytonstone service put away somewhere convenient such as Woodford or Loughton sidings.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2021 18:53:57 GMT
I was surprised when they removed Holborn and kept Queensway, Holborn was a lot more useful but I guess a lot more expensive to maintain. I know a little bit about this. I was involved with scoping the Holborn points for a renewal and conversion to Surelock electric points about ten years ago. Most definitely technically possible, the biggest issue was the need for a very large cable to counteract the line losses on the point machine drives and ensure a decent voltage level on the motor. Alternatively, put a small kiosk with some repeater relays at British Museum Disused like there is at the end of Leytonstone loop to limit the voltage drop - this wasn't very popular because it would be in a tunnel, but it had been done in the tunnel at Heathrow T123 a few years earlier. In 2013/14 we scoped it again, with similar conclusions. The decision to remove them was made by the then Head of the Track Renewals programme who was an ex-Operator who thought they knew best and had a point to prove, who persuaded the line management to agree to it. Needless to say, the cost to remove all the associated signalling wasn't factored in and when it was, the decision was made to outsource the work to the original design contractor, rather than use the in-house team who were by then reasonably familiar with the Central line. We are still dealing with the repercussions of this, I attended a meeting earlier this year on the issue. The redundant wiring still hasn't been completely removed (and likely never will be), the cost to date on the recovery works is far in excess of what the renewal would have cost, and the manager whose ego forced us down this path has now left TfL for a better position elsewhere leaving a trail of destruction and wasted money in their wake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 19:51:27 GMT
I was surprised when they removed Holborn and kept Queensway, Holborn was a lot more useful but I guess a lot more expensive to maintain. I know a little bit about this. I was involved with scoping the Holborn points for a renewal and conversion to Surelock electric points about ten years ago. Most definitely technically possible, the biggest issue was the need for a very large cable to counteract the line losses on the point machine drives and ensure a decent voltage level on the motor. Alternatively, put a small kiosk with some repeater relays at British Museum Disused like there is at the end of Leytonstone loop to limit the voltage drop - this wasn't very popular because it would be in a tunnel, but it had been done in the tunnel at Heathrow T123 a few years earlier. In 2013/14 we scoped it again, with similar conclusions. The decision to remove them was made by the then Head of the Track Renewals programme who was an ex-Operator who thought they knew best and had a point to prove, who persuaded the line management to agree to it. Needless to say, the cost to remove all the associated signalling wasn't factored in and when it was, the decision was made to outsource the work to the original design contractor, who put some of their most junior staff on it and charged us market rate for experienced staff, rather than use the in-house team who were by then reasonably familiar with the Central line. We are still dealing with the repercussions of this, I attended a meeting earlier this year on the issue. The redundant wiring still hasn't been completely removed (and likely never will be), the cost to date on the recovery works is far in excess of what the renewal would have cost, and the manager whose ego forced us down this path has now left TfL for a better position elsewhere leaving a trail of destruction and wasted money in their wake. Are there any more plans to renew some tracks in the eastern tunnel part of the Central Line? I know it's incredibly noisy down there and it would be nice if the track got replaced.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Sept 15, 2021 19:56:28 GMT
I know a little bit about this. I was involved with scoping the Holborn points for a renewal and conversion to Surelock electric points about ten years ago. Most definitely technically possible, the biggest issue was the need for a very large cable to counteract the line losses on the point machine drives and ensure a decent voltage level on the motor. Alternatively, put a small kiosk with some repeater relays at British Museum Disused like there is at the end of Leytonstone loop to limit the voltage drop - this wasn't very popular because it would be in a tunnel, but it had been done in the tunnel at Heathrow T123 a few years earlier. In 2013/14 we scoped it again, with similar conclusions. The decision to remove them was made by the then Head of the Track Renewals programme who was an ex-Operator who thought they knew best and had a point to prove, who persuaded the line management to agree to it. Needless to say, the cost to remove all the associated signalling wasn't factored in and when it was, the decision was made to outsource the work to the original design contractor, who put some of their most junior staff on it and charged us market rate for experienced staff, rather than use the in-house team who were by then reasonably familiar with the Central line. We are still dealing with the repercussions of this, I attended a meeting earlier this year on the issue. The redundant wiring still hasn't been completely removed (and likely never will be), the cost to date on the recovery works is far in excess of what the renewal would have cost, and the manager whose ego forced us down this path has now left TfL for a better position elsewhere leaving a trail of destruction and wasted money in their wake. Are there any more plans to renew some tracks in the eastern tunnel part of the Central Line? I know it's incredibly noisy down there and it would be nice if the track got replaced. A massive amount of track renewal has taken place over the last decade or more. I managed a couple of walks Liverpool St to Leyton and Leytonstone to Newbury Park fairly recently, and it was noticeable how little bull-head rail was left. A lot of noise now results from the high amount of rail grinding which is now programmed on LU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2021 20:13:21 GMT
Are there any more plans to renew some tracks in the eastern tunnel part of the Central Line? I know it's incredibly noisy down there and it would be nice if the track got replaced. A massive amount of track renewal has taken place over the last decade or more. I managed a couple of walks Liverpool St to Leyton and Leytonstone to Newbury Park fairly recently, and it was noticeable how little bull-head rail was left. A lot of noise now results from the high amount of rail grinding which is now programmed on LU. In this video, you can hear the track pitch suddenly change. Is this what rail grinding does or the replacement of tracks?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2021 23:35:32 GMT
In this video, you can hear the track pitch suddenly change. Is this what rail grinding does or the replacement of tracks? At which point in the hour long video does the pitch change? With the greatest of respect we don't all have an hour free to listen for the change...
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Post by greenkitten on Sept 16, 2021 0:06:13 GMT
In this video, you can hear the track pitch suddenly change. Is this what rail grinding does or the replacement of tracks? At which point in the hour long video does the pitch change? With the greatest of respect we don't all have an hour free to listen for the change... The video is time stamped (when you press play it jumps to the point in the video tom5ki7 is talking about, I presume) - though admittedly I can’t really hear a difference.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 16, 2021 0:39:52 GMT
Ah ok, my bad! In that case, no, the pitch change on that video is not down to rail grinding. Rail grinding causes a very high pitch continuous whine. It's very distinctive whereas the noises on that video are just the normal Central line racket.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Sept 16, 2021 7:37:43 GMT
I guess we have to see if NTfl has less whine
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 9:22:49 GMT
Ah ok, my bad! In that case, no, the pitch change on that video is not down to rail grinding. Rail grinding causes a very high pitch continuous whine. It's very distinctive whereas the noises on that video are just the normal Central line racket. I have another video of where you can hear the whine very clearly. It's somewhere in my phone so I'll send it here when I have time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 9:40:14 GMT
At which point in the hour long video does the pitch change? With the greatest of respect we don't all have an hour free to listen for the change... The video is time stamped (when you press play it jumps to the point in the video tom5ki7 is talking about, I presume) - though admittedly I can’t really hear a difference. You do have to listen for it for about 10-15 seconds. I personally can tell the difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 10:29:24 GMT
Here is a video of the high pitched noise. Is this what rail grinding does?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 16, 2021 12:59:30 GMT
I’ve listened to it a few times as it’s hard to tell with all the normal noises the central line makes…….I’m falling on the side of no, that track hasn’t been rail grinded.
I have tried a few search terms on YouTube myself to try and find an example but I haven’t been successful. It really is quite a distinctive sound.
Might just have to wait till the District gets a bit done then I can video it for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 13:38:13 GMT
I’ve listened to it a few times as it’s hard to tell with all the normal noises the central line makes…….I’m falling on the side of no, that track hasn’t been rail grinded. I have tried a few search terms on YouTube myself to try and find an example but I haven’t been successful. It really is quite a distinctive sound. Might just have to wait till the District gets a bit done then I can video it for you. I’m aware the Tottenham Court Road - British Musuem Sidings was grinded or replaced, I’m not sure.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 16, 2021 15:49:48 GMT
I’ve listened to it a few times as it’s hard to tell with all the normal noises the central line makes…….I’m falling on the side of no, that track hasn’t been rail grinded. I have tried a few search terms on YouTube myself to try and find an example but I haven’t been successful. It really is quite a distinctive sound. Might just have to wait till the District gets a bit done then I can video it for you. The sounds of rail grinding on the District line may have a different sound as most of the line is either in open sections, double track tunnel, cut and cover ,the only part in cast iron rings I can recall is near Mile End.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Sept 20, 2021 23:00:41 GMT
We at Sullivan Buses will be doing rail replacement buses from Willesden Junction to Northolt this weekend 25/26 September 2021 for the Central Line. Notebooks at the ready...
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 25, 2021 20:11:34 GMT
Queensway points are holding up but the timetable is a disaster.
Hainault via Woodfords are causing great confusion with the subsequent panic at Leytonstone as passengers realise they're on the wrong train. They should have kept the shuttles and made all Hainaults via Newbury Park.
As there isn't a code for Marble Arch via Woodford the platform indicators at Hainault are all showing Marble Arch so passengers are coming up to platform 1 thinking the train is going via Newbury Park
Later tonight the service is going to be very thin as the roster has a lot of Night Tube duties picking up and stabling trains but there very few Night Tube drives left! I've been told there could be a 40 minute gap between Hainault via Newbury Parks because trains are having to be put away early.
And we get to do all of this again next weekend!
This lot couldn't run a bath
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Post by jamesb on Sept 25, 2021 22:26:35 GMT
"Central Line: NO SERVICE between Queensway and Marble Arch and SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line while we fix a signal failure at Queensway. Tickets are being accepted on local buses and Greater Anglia services. No service between Queensway and Ealing Broadway / West Ruislip due to planned engineering work."
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