|
Post by zbang on Aug 17, 2021 16:43:17 GMT
A bit late to be asking, but is this the Londonist series that Geoff Marshall did 7-8 years ago? I've been watching them on youtube.
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Aug 17, 2021 17:13:54 GMT
Tonight's episode really interested me having worked at Aldgate East over the years. The keys for ST Mary's were kept here and in my day the entrance was a doorway at a petrol station on the Whitechapel Road. I knew what the hooks were for in the ceiling. The reason for moving the station was said for longer trains, but they were already many 8 car trains and they fouled the junctions at Aldgate while waiting to enter the original Aldgate East eastbound and the rear of westbound trains would still be in the platform waiting to cross the Aldgate junctions to either Tower Hill or Liverpool Street.. The new station was a filthy station to work at, as was Mile End both just below the surface, because of tunnel dust and up to 1970 engineers steam locomotives standing waiting for the signal. It was a real revelation to discover there are still remnants of Aldgate East #1 as well as St Mary's. Never looked for these when on trains, unlike with St Mary's, so that's one back on the bucket list. The other part of last night's show & Oxford Circus-it was a great & pleasant surprise about the tiling on the former Bakerloo spiral staircase there-fantastic condition. Pity the first station at Oxford Circus (Central Line) didn't have its' architect named on the show-Harry Bell Measures-though at least we know the facade is preserved as Grade II listed. I would beg to differ. Whitechapel District opened 6 October 1884 at the present site. It came to the surface because it had to pass over the East London Line as the original link to the London & Tilbury had been proposed in 1882 but abandoned. Another reason it had to be in the open was for the steam engines to stand. The East London line station and entrance had been there since 1876 in a cutting. The District Line footbridges from the booking hall to the platforms were tacked on.
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
|
Post by DWS on Aug 17, 2021 18:02:27 GMT
A bit late to be asking, but is this the Londonist series that Geoff Marshall did 7-8 years ago? I've been watching them on youtube. No this a new series of programs, Siddy Holloway works for the London Transport Museum.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 17, 2021 22:37:53 GMT
I did watch it yesterday, interesting. I also went to Aldgate East today, saw some parts of the old station sat close at window.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 17, 2021 22:38:28 GMT
The 1965 Rail Plan for London included “a link from Aldwych to Waterloo. London Transport had already sought parliamentary approval to construct tunnels from Aldwych to Waterloo in November 1964, and in August 1965, parliamentary powers were granted. Detailed planning took place, although public spending cuts led to postponement of the scheme in 1967 before tenders were invited.” (Wikipedia on Aldwych) This would have seen the second platform open again at Aldwych to provide a passing place for a two train shuttle. But by 1970 this route had been incorporated into the cross-london Chelsea-Hackney proposal. The economies of incorporating this short section of tunnel were outweighed by the complications, and it soon gave way to an alignment more like the Crossrail 2 proposal we know today! Would crossrail 2 used the Piccadilly Aldwych branch tracks?
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Aug 18, 2021 0:53:48 GMT
The 1965 Rail Plan for London included “a link from Aldwych to Waterloo. London Transport had already sought parliamentary approval to construct tunnels from Aldwych to Waterloo in November 1964, and in August 1965, parliamentary powers were granted. Detailed planning took place, although public spending cuts led to postponement of the scheme in 1967 before tenders were invited.” (Wikipedia on Aldwych) This would have seen the second platform open again at Aldwych to provide a passing place for a two train shuttle. But by 1970 this route had been incorporated into the cross-london Chelsea-Hackney proposal. The economies of incorporating this short section of tunnel were outweighed by the complications, and it soon gave way to an alignment more like the Crossrail 2 proposal we know today! Would crossrail 2 used the Piccadilly Aldwych branch tracks? "A south-west to north-east tube line was proposed in 1970 by the London Transport Board's London Rail Study as the next project after the completion of the Victoria line and the Fleet line (now the Jubilee line). Designed to relieve pressure on the District, Central and Victoria lines and to link two areas without tube services, the route would have taken over the Wimbledon branch of the District as far as Parsons Green, then followed a new underground alignment via Aldwych (where it would take over the then Piccadilly line shuttle to Holborn); thence to Leytonstone, and continuing over one of the branches of the Central line. For financial reasons the line was not built, but the idea has remained." source here This would save the cost of twin tunnels from Aldwych to Holborn and cost of two platforms at Aldwych, but limit the new line here to current alignment and tunnel dimensions. Probably saving a very small share of whole project. And how would they proceed north at Holborn? At least one new platform needed there, and probably two to head towards Farringdon.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 18, 2021 23:14:26 GMT
Would crossrail 2 used the Piccadilly Aldwych branch tracks? "A south-west to north-east tube line was proposed in 1970 by the London Transport Board's London Rail Study as the next project after the completion of the Victoria line and the Fleet line (now the Jubilee line). Designed to relieve pressure on the District, Central and Victoria lines and to link two areas without tube services, the route would have taken over the Wimbledon branch of the District as far as Parsons Green, then followed a new underground alignment via Aldwych (where it would take over the then Piccadilly line shuttle to Holborn); thence to Leytonstone, and continuing over one of the branches of the Central line. For financial reasons the line was not built, but the idea has remained." source here This would save the cost of twin tunnels from Aldwych to Holborn and cost of two platforms at Aldwych, but limit the new line here to current alignment and tunnel dimensions. Probably saving a very small share of whole project. And how would they proceed north at Holborn? At least one new platform needed there, and probably two to head towards Farringdon. It would appear that under the now Crossrail2, the Aldwych tunnels would not get used.
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Aug 19, 2021 1:08:44 GMT
The keys for ST Mary's ......... in my day the entrance was a doorway at a petrol station on the Whitechapel Road. I knew what the hooks were for in the ceiling. . I once visited what was left of the surface buildings at St Marys, which was at the time a car showroom, without realising its history. What the programme did not mention was that when St Marys opened, the present Whitechapel station did not exist. The line was originally a connection between the East London Line and the existing District and Metropolitan (at Mansion House and Liverpool Street respectively). Only later was the "Whitechapel & Bow" extension built through a new Whitechapel station, branching off what became the "St Marys curve". Which is why what is now the main line does a "jink" just after St Marys. My source (Doug Rose's LU Diagrammatic History, 8th edition) shows the situation somewhat different, and it seems that St Mary's and Whitechapel were part of the same extension project. Steam services started from St Mary's to the East London Line on 1 Oct 1884, but the extension lines from Mansion House and Liverpool Street were first served from 6 Oct 1884, so later that week! The current Whitechapel was a reversing point for the District service until the extension east opened on 2 June 1902.
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Aug 19, 2021 6:18:57 GMT
I once visited what was left of the surface buildings at St Marys, which was at the time a car showroom, without realising its history. What the programme did not mention was that when St Marys opened, the present Whitechapel station did not exist. The line was originally a connection between the East London Line and the existing District and Metropolitan (at Mansion House and Liverpool Street respectively). Only later was the "Whitechapel & Bow" extension built through a new Whitechapel station, branching off what became the "St Marys curve". Which is why what is now the main line does a "jink" just after St Marys. My source (Doug Rose's LU Diagrammatic History, 8th edition) shows the situation somewhat different, and it seems that St Mary's and Whitechapel were part of the same extension project. Steam services started from St Mary's to the East London Line on 1 Oct 1884, but the extension lines from Mansion House and Liverpool Street were first served from 6 Oct 1884, so later that week! The current Whitechapel was a reversing point for the District service until the extension east opened on 2 June 1902. whitechapel by Robert, on Flickr I looked at my third edition of Douglas Rose's map and it is very misleading as it only includes Met and District services and not the original London, Brighton & South Coast Railway. The Southern Region successor held running rights up to the time the connection with the Eastern Region was severed in 1966.
|
|
|
Post by theblackferret on Aug 24, 2021 11:49:27 GMT
Last of the series yesterday.
Enjoyable, but thought they might have covered the original plan for a deep-level line from before the war on the Clapham South shelters to give it a full Tube railway context.
Good to see all that Moorgate had to offer,too-wonder if the Greathead Shield still works? And whether in 2121, there'll be similar excitement at TfL tours around the abandoned Crossrail project.
Hope we don't have to wait as long for another series, though!
|
|
|
Post by modeng2000 on Aug 24, 2021 14:02:12 GMT
Shame there was no mention of the mercury arc rectifier that appeared in one of the photographs. The history is very interesting but without the power side, only partly told.
John
|
|
|
Post by zbang on Aug 24, 2021 15:54:17 GMT
I don't recall seeing much (public) info about the power supply systems, have I missed it or is there really not much out there to find?
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Aug 24, 2021 18:56:55 GMT
Shame there was no mention of the mercury arc rectifier that appeared in one of the photographs. The history is very interesting but without the power side, only partly told. John I guess unfortunately with so much to cover and only ~45mins of broadcast time; some stuff isn't going to make the cut.
|
|
|
Post by modeng2000 on Aug 25, 2021 6:24:38 GMT
Shame there was no mention of the mercury arc rectifier that appeared in one of the photographs. The history is very interesting but without the power side, only partly told. John I guess unfortunately with so much to cover and only ~45mins of broadcast time; some stuff isn't going to make the cut. Yes, this is always true when trying to cover such a wide subject. Perhaps a follow-up series could cover other aspects of running an underground railway but I suspect it would be too technical to be used as entertainment.
John
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Aug 25, 2021 7:12:57 GMT
I don't recall seeing much (public) info about the power supply systems, have I missed it or is there really not much out there to find? Probably excluded for security reasons.
|
|
|
Post by zbang on Aug 25, 2021 16:12:03 GMT
Probably excluded for security reasons. I would think that only covers things published by TfL itself (one could argue against the CartaMetro maps for the same "security" reasons but they're available).
Mike Horne wrote on this*, there's been some here on DD, and there's even a bit on the TfL web site. It just seems that few have considered the power systems interesting enough. Compare to NYC and New York's Forgotten Substations: The Power Behind the Subway, with interior photos of the no-longer-operating converters.
Oh, well, this sends me down another research rat-hole.
|
|
|
Post by timbo on Aug 25, 2021 17:53:38 GMT
Shame there was no mention of the mercury arc rectifier that appeared in one of the photographs. The history is very interesting but without the power side, only partly told. John I guess unfortunately with so much to cover and only ~45mins of broadcast time; some stuff isn't going to make the cut. I think we'd all have liked to have shown a LOT more stuff for context. But this is a TV programme and not a complete history. These *are* complete stories, though, and what I am enjoying is seeing how they are inspiring people who don't think of themselves as "tube enthusiasts" or whatever to start looking into this stuff a little more. Knock down walls to bring the people in, don't build them higher to keep everybody out, etc.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
|
Post by Tom on Aug 25, 2021 20:33:15 GMT
Probably excluded for security reasons. I wondered about that with the Bull and Bush episode - was that why it was said to have been mothballed in the 1960s, despite retired members of staff having memories of it still in use for various activities until the late 1980s (though I'm not sure if the Victoria Line floodgates were ever controlled from there), or had the researchers not done their research?
|
|
|
Post by modeng2000 on Aug 26, 2021 9:58:56 GMT
Probably excluded for security reasons. I would think that only covers things published by TfL itself (one could argue against the CartaMetro maps for the same "security" reasons but they're available).
Mike Horne wrote on this*, there's been some here on DD, and there's even a bit on the TfL web site. It just seems that few have considered the power systems interesting enough. Compare to NYC and New York's Forgotten Substations: The Power Behind the Subway, with interior photos of the no-longer-operating converters.
Oh, well, this sends me down another research rat-hole.
Thanks for the metadyne link
John
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Aug 26, 2021 12:43:55 GMT
Probably excluded for security reasons. I wondered about that with the Bull and Bush episode - was that why it was said to have been mothballed in the 1960s, despite retired members of staff having memories of it still in use for various activities until the late 1980s (though I'm not sure if the Victoria Line floodgates were ever controlled from there), or had the researchers not done their research? The flood threat to London remained, with periodic training routines, until the Thames Barrier was commissioned in 1982. The GLC flood control was based in temporary cabins in the Holborn tram subway, just on the boundary of the predicted wet area! Why not up the Post Office Tower to be sure to be dry?
|
|
|
Post by programmes1 on Aug 27, 2021 8:09:08 GMT
Probably excluded for security reasons. I wondered about that with the Bull and Bush episode - was that why it was said to have been mothballed in the 1960s, despite retired members of staff having memories of it still in use for various activities until the late 1980s (though I'm not sure if the Victoria Line floodgates were ever controlled from there), or had the researchers not done their research? I have heard that Bull and Bush was used right up to the 1980s although IIRC it was twice a year for a test. As the Victoria line was opened in 1968 and the section with floodgates was opened in 1969 I think it would have controlled the floodgates unless someone knows different. Security can mean so many things normally used for the wrong ones in my experience just they want to keep you in the dark.
|
|
|
Post by holborncentral on Aug 27, 2021 21:10:36 GMT
I enjoyed the series. My only complaint was that it was too short! They could have easily made a few more episodes
|
|
|
Post by modeng2000 on Aug 28, 2021 6:44:08 GMT
|
|
brigham
Posts: 2,533
Member is Online
|
Post by brigham on Aug 28, 2021 7:15:19 GMT
]The flood threat to London remained, with periodic training routines, until the Thames Barrier was commissioned in 1982. The GLC flood control was based in temporary cabins in the Holborn tram subway, just on the boundary of the predicted wet area! Why not up the Post Office Tower to be sure to be dry? I believe it was considered, but the number of slip-rings required for the control circuits ruled it out!
|
|
burkitt
Posts: 135
Member is Online
|
Post by burkitt on Aug 28, 2021 7:39:50 GMT
I haven't watched this episode yet, but there are eight shelters in total, at Chancery Lane station on the Central line and Belsize Park, Camden Town, Goodge Street, Stockwell, Clapham North, Clapham Common, and Clapham South on the Northern line. Other than Clapham South with the museum and the farm in Clapham Common, the rest are either archive document storage or disused.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 28, 2021 9:39:50 GMT
I believe it was considered, but the number of slip-rings required for the control circuits ruled it out! It is only the former restaurant level which goes round and round!
|
|
|
Post by herbietheone on Aug 28, 2021 10:37:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jan 17, 2022 1:29:58 GMT
tweeted few hours ago, by Tim Dunn
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Apr 29, 2022 17:52:33 GMT
After a very well received first series, Series 2 is now due for broadcast with another 10 episodes. Too many great locations covered to list in this run but suffice to say that there are some real gems. Every Thursday from 5 May at 8pm repeated on Fridays at 9pm. Link to IanVisits article: here
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Apr 29, 2022 22:12:18 GMT
After a very well received first series, Series 2 is now due for broadcast with another 10 episodes. Too many great locations covered to list in this run but suffice to say that there are some real gems. Every Thursday from 5 May at 8pm repeated on Fridays at 9pm. Link to IanVisits article: hereI am particularly looking forward to episode 10! 😇
|
|