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Post by superteacher on Dec 24, 2020 13:09:31 GMT
Before the line was transferred to BR in 1975, I was wondering what the frequencies were like, and also the times of the first and last trains.
Also, when the line was cut back to Drayton Park in 1964, trains reversed via the old northbound platform, mainly because it wasn't possible to access the other platform for trains heading from Highbury. Wad it still possible to access the old southbound platform from the depot, and was it ever used as such?
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gantshill
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Post by gantshill on Dec 24, 2020 17:54:11 GMT
According to "The Big Tube" (J Graeme Bruce, 1976), from the time that the section between Drayton Park and Finsbury Park closed, the traffic day was 06:30 (08:45 Sats) to 20:30. Once the Victoria line opened, the frequency was 5 minute peak, 8 minute off-peak.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Dec 24, 2020 18:09:11 GMT
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 26, 2020 21:54:21 GMT
That's right, it could only ever be accessed from the NB line.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 26, 2020 22:05:32 GMT
That's right, it could only ever be accessed from the NB line. Ah - so it basically rusted away for quite a few years. So before the Finsbury Park section closed, how did trains going out of service at Finsbury Park reach Drayton Park depot? And how did stock transfers reach the depot? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2020 8:16:09 GMT
I've not got any timetables from that era, but would assume they either worked back to the limit of shunt South of Drayton Park, changed ends, crossed over using shunt signal NC29, proceeded to the limit of shunt North of Drayton Park, changed ends and entered the depot using shunt signal NC9.
Stock transfers came in and left via the connection to the Eastern Region on the southbound side, just north of Drayton Park.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 27, 2020 11:19:07 GMT
I've not got any timetables from that era, but would assume they either worked back to the limit of shunt South of Drayton Park, changed ends, crossed over using shunt signal NC29, proceeded to the limit of shunt North of Drayton Park, changed ends and entered the depot using shunt signal NC9. Stock transfers came in and left via the connection to the Eastern Region on the southbound side, just north of Drayton Park. In that case, the stock transfers would have needed access to the southbound platform at Drayton Park, then accessed the depot as you described? |
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Post by bruce on Dec 27, 2020 11:40:49 GMT
I believe that a train was stabled overnight in the southbound platform.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2020 21:21:57 GMT
That's certainly the case in Working Timetable 128 (10/1/75). On Mondays to Fridays, train 274 started from the SB platform at 0744 and train 272 stabled there at 2013.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 27, 2020 21:38:28 GMT
That's certainly the case in Working Timetable 128 (10/1/75). On Mondays to Fridays, train 274 started from the SB platform at 0744 and train 272 stabled there at 2013. So how did the train get to the SB platform? Was the trailing crossover south of the station formerly a scissors? I really need a track layout plan! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 27, 2020 21:59:15 GMT
I don’t remember seeing a scissors on the tracklayouts so I assume when the train arrived at Drayton Park from the south, detrained then ran south over the crossover to a limit of shunt then ran back north into the southbound platform?
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 27, 2020 23:32:37 GMT
I really need a track layout plan! can help with that. Click here |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 28, 2020 9:16:49 GMT
I really need a track layout plan! can help with that. Click hereHow could I have forgotten the excellent track diagrams provided by our very own Harsig ! |
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Post by selbiehouse on Jan 3, 2021 22:35:44 GMT
I have WTT No.17A of 13th April, 1964. Due to Victoria Line construction work after 8pm on Monday to Friday the service was split into two sections at Essex Road. The Southbound track was used in both directions between Finsbury Park and Essex Road and the northbound between there and Moorgate. A 20 minute service was provided with trains connecting at Essex Road. At the end of the am peak three consecutive trains uncoupled SB at Drayton Park and one at Finsbury Park where the four car unit was stabled between the peaks. For the evening peak the four car units were run empty to Finsbury Park in advance of the two car train which coupled on arrival. One train was stabled between peaks and overnight at Moorgate. Here are two photos which I took at Drayton Park on 6.2.1965
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 14:49:55 GMT
Thank you "selbiehouse" for two great photos. I have never seen a 1931/34 set on the old stock connection ramp before, unlike photos of 1923-29 Stock, which were stabled there frequently.
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Post by ted672 on Jan 4, 2021 16:35:40 GMT
I visited the line not long after starting with LT in September 1975 and trains were arriving and departing using the northbound platform and using a crossover to the south to reach the southbound track. I do have some photos on my Flickr page, but can't get them to show here, so this is the link: flic.kr/p/pqm2p4 |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 4, 2021 20:05:38 GMT
Thank you "selbiehouse" for two great photos. I have never seen a 1931/34 set on the old stock connection ramp before, unlike photos of 1923-29 Stock, which were stabled there frequently. That ramp was part of the New Works programme, for trains to Highgate and onward, which never connected before works abandoned after the War. |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Jan 4, 2021 22:31:43 GMT
Jimbo...thank you for that.
I recently helped a relative with a local history project attempting to untangle the history of the section between Drayton Park and Finsbury Park,upper AND lower levels,and what was still visible on the surface.
This was no easy task.
I managed to find the route of the S/B New Works Programme connection,but not the N/B.This thread has helped me progress.
Does anyone have a map/diagram of the proposed and/or completed NWP scheme for this area??
Or,indeed,the mid-70s scheme which was finally completed??
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Post by ted672 on Jan 5, 2021 15:02:09 GMT
It may be worth tracking down a copy of Jim Blake's "Northern Wastes" book which goes into some detail on the plans for the New Works Programme. I beleive there are copies on some on-line sites (but not Am...n at £37.00!!!!)or from Jim direct.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 16:02:13 GMT
Thank you "selbiehouse" for two great photos. I have never seen a 1931/34 set on the old stock connection ramp before, unlike photos of 1923-29 Stock, which were stabled there frequently. That ramp was part of the New Works programme, for trains to Highgate and onward, which never connected before works abandoned after the War. That ramp was a connection to the main line for stock transfers and wasn't part of the New Works Programme, apart from being replaced by the ramp into the southbound platform, which was commissioned in late-1941. The northbound link at normal track level was partly built but not opened up at the south end until the GN electrification work in 1976. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 16:17:27 GMT
Northern City services from October 1964, when the line was cut back to terminate at Drayton Park:
5/10/64
MF – 8-8½ (5½ peaks).
SO – 8-8½ (6-6½ peaks, 10 after midday peak).
Su – 12½ all day
17/10/66
MF – 8 (5 peaks).
SO – 10 (8 peaks).
Su – 12 all day
1/9/68
MF – 12 (6 peaks).
SO – 10 (12 before 10.00).
Su – 12 (15 before 10.00).
24/2/69
MF peak service reduced from 6-minutes to 6½-7.
Su 12 (15 before 12.30).
5/10/70
MF 10 (6½-7 peaks, 12 eve)
SO 10 (12 before 11.00).
No change Sun
4/4/71
MF 10 (7½ peaks)
SO 10 (12 before 11.30)
12/7/71
MF 10 (6½-7 peaks, 12 eve)
SO 10 (12 before 10.30)
Su 12 (15 before 10.30)
10/2/75 (the last LT timetable)
MF 10 (6 peaks, 12 eve)
SO 12
Sun no change.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 5, 2021 22:27:37 GMT
When did the last LT train finally leave the line?
Also @reganorak when did uncoupling cease on the line?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 5, 2021 23:36:38 GMT
The last train left shortly after closure in October 1975. I might well be wrong, but I'm fairly certain uncoupling either ended with the withdrawal of Standard Stock or the closure of the Finsbury Park to Drayton Park section.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 6, 2021 20:03:25 GMT
I would have thought somebody would have photographed the last LT train leaving the line, and possibly the first 313 arriving.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 6, 2021 23:00:06 GMT
I though uncoupling ended in 1964 when the line was cut back to Drayton Park for Victoria Line work.
The 1923-29 standard stock which ran in M-T-T-CT+CT-M uncoupling to CT-M in the slack hours was replaced with 1931-34 standard stock from the Piccadilly running as M-T-T-M at all times. This lasted until 1966 when the 1938 stock took over I seem to remember reading.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 0:06:23 GMT
I though uncoupling ended in 1964 when the line was cut back to Drayton Park for Victoria Line work. The 1923-29 standard stock which ran in M-T-T-CT+CT-M uncoupling to CT-M in the slack hours was replaced with 1931-34 standard stock from the Piccadilly running as M-T-T-M at all times. This lasted until 1966 when the 1938 stock took over I seem to remember reading. Spot on Metman. Uncoupling ended when the line was closed to Finsbury Park on 3/10/64. The last four-car Standard Stock ran in the morning peak on 3/11/66. Initially, three- or four-car units of 1938 Stock took over, increased to six cars (3+3) when the Victoria Line opened. Signalling modifications were later made for seven car train operation which was trialled for a very brief period. |
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Post by selbiehouse on Jan 7, 2021 12:58:53 GMT
That ramp was part of the New Works programme, for trains to Highgate and onward, which never connected before works abandoned after the War. That ramp was a connection to the main line for stock transfers and wasn't part of the New Works Programme, apart from being replaced by the ramp into the southbound platform, which was commissioned in late-1941. The northbound link at normal track level was partly built but not opened up at the south end until the GN electrification work in 1976. That makes sense as I could not see how service trains could have got to use this ramp from the northbound platform. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 7, 2021 14:55:36 GMT
How many trains were needed for the peak vs off-peak services?
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Jan 7, 2021 16:59:25 GMT
It may be worth tracking down a copy of Jim Blake's "Northern Wastes" book which goes into some detail on the plans for the New Works Programme. I beleive there are copies on some on-line sites (but not Am...n at £37.00!!!!)or from Jim direct. Thank you Ted672....I've ordered a copy from Jim Blake. |
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Post by roythebus on Jan 8, 2021 0:08:08 GMT
Possibly the last item of rolling stock to leave the line was the BR RMB restaurant miniature buffet that was planted in the depot for use as a train crew mess room for the BR staff. I worked down there a a secondment at KX on a class 08 and the converted 501 battery locos. somebody did take a 31 into the tunnel and reportedly got past Highbury with it! Otherwise engineering trains were powered by the battery locos. Behind the false walls on the platforms is a plethora of 1977 adverts and station signs all hidden away.  Pity I never had a decent camera in those days. |
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Pity I never had a decent camera in those days.
