|
Post by programmes1 on Dec 12, 2020 9:57:26 GMT
How do the lifts operate am I right in thinking
1. by a member of staff inside working the controls.
2. by a member of staff outside working the controls.
3. by the passengers operating the buttons to call the lift. I have not used a lift station for many years.
What would these workings be called?
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,747
|
Post by class411 on Dec 12, 2020 10:02:50 GMT
I vaguely remember lifts operated by internal staff from my childhood, but have not seen one for years.
It would be interesting to know when the last one was replaced (assuming they all have).
|
|
|
Post by rsdworker on Dec 12, 2020 14:37:47 GMT
for deep lifts (steps down from landings stations do have staff controls outside but this very rarely but most is automatic but some have press to call lift
stations with full step free lifts have passegner press call lift
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Dec 12, 2020 18:13:22 GMT
Many lifts were operated by ticket collectors from inside the lift. Their controls closed the lift doors often of the bostwick type and started the lift which automatically stopped at the correct level.
One exception was Wapping where my father worked. The ticket collector stopped the lift as well. For this reason he was not supposed to travel in the lift but use the stairs in case the Ticket Collector overshot the stop mark. If this happened the lift had to be hand wound by opening and closing a big circuit breaker from the machine room. The cable had a mark to indicate when the lift was at floor level. When the training centre was at White City we were trooped off to Edgware Road, Bakerloo, to learn hand winding.
Another thing with lifts was when out of service they were left on the upper landing to reduce strain on the cable because the counter weight was heavier than an empty lift.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Dec 12, 2020 19:25:28 GMT
Another thing with lifts was when out of service they were left on the upper landing to reduce strain on the cable because the counter weight was heavier than an empty lift. Surely this would increase strain, unless they were taken above the upper landing such that the counter-weight rested on the ground?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,785
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2020 0:56:50 GMT
At at least some stations where the primary access is by lift the lifts can be operated by a staff member operating controls from the lift landing. In my limited experience this happens at very busy times so I presume that it is done to maximise the throughput.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 13, 2020 1:31:39 GMT
When I worked for firms doing maintenance on the Underground I had to have regular training to get a pass to enter lift and escalator machine rooms.
Most of the times an escalator mock up was used for training.
After doing the written test we would be taken to stations to enter machine rooms and to have a demonstration of how to work a lift from the manual controls behind a locked panel.
In earlier times you had to book a lift operator when working at night and needed to use a lift to carry heavy equipment to platform level and back to the surface. One night I had a crew at Hampstead (the deepest lift station). The booked lift operator just left the station with us still at platform level. We had to carry everything up the stairs.
|
|
|
Post by JR 15secs on Dec 13, 2020 7:46:17 GMT
The old Otis lifts could be worked from either inside (Car control) or outside (landing control).Hampstead from memory worked as the Wadsworth or similar. The Wadsworth were the same but could also be left to operate by the passengers.
I'm sure someone who knows Hampstead better will be able to give a better explanation.
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 13, 2020 23:15:32 GMT
This film showing Aldwych station shortly before closure includes a lift ride with Bostwick gates, a ticket collector inside the lift and more!
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 14, 2020 9:06:53 GMT
First time I've seen an Underground lift with that type of indicator in working order. For years, the ones at Regents Park were stuck part-way up, with slack loops of the cord showing. When Aldwych (Strand) closed, money was spent to deliberately prevent the operation of the lifts for demonstration purposes.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 14, 2020 9:58:49 GMT
When Aldwych (Strand) closed, money was spent to deliberately prevent the operation of the lifts for demonstration purposes. The age and condition of the lifts was the primary reason Aldwych closed; bracing the lifts was hardly done to "deliberately prevent operation". 🤦🏼
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Dec 14, 2020 15:48:54 GMT
Was Aldwych the last station to have attendant worked lifts from within the lift itself? If not, what was the station and when were the lifts replaced please? I can remember riding in a lift in the 1990s as a child that was worked by an attendant somewhere in London, but trying to jog my memory where it might have been.
|
|
|
Post by bruce on Dec 14, 2020 17:03:43 GMT
Didn't Mornington Crescent have attendant operated lifts?
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Dec 14, 2020 18:06:28 GMT
They all had attendant-operated lifts...automatic lifts are fairly recent (post-war?) I remember Goodge St having attendant-operated lifts until at least the late 70s.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 14, 2020 19:04:30 GMT
When Aldwych (Strand) closed, money was spent to deliberately prevent the operation of the lifts for demonstration purposes. The age and condition of the lifts was the primary reason Aldwych closed; bracing the lifts was hardly done to "deliberately prevent operation". 🤦🏼 "Bracing the lifts" wasn't done. If arranging for the car to be supported by fixed, permanent girders across the shaft, and then unshipping and removing the ropes doesn't count as "deliberately preventing operation", then I don't know what does.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 14, 2020 20:54:05 GMT
That’s entirely what bracing is.
Given that the alternative was to remove the lifts completely, because they were life expired, I’m not sure what you expect to have happened...? Please enlighten us.
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 14, 2020 23:20:27 GMT
That’s entirely what bracing is. Given that the alternative was to remove the lifts completely, because they were life expired, I’m not sure what you expect to have happened...? Please enlighten us. I suppose that they could they could just been left at the bottom of the shaft! But this is a better solution and I'm just pleased that they are still there. Since it closed I've visited the station (once) and when there I saw how the lifts are now side by side with the emergency doors open so that people could see how a failed lift used to be evacuated. btw, was it only the lift machinery and cables which were life-expired - or the lift cars too?
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Dec 15, 2020 7:50:18 GMT
I suppose that they could they could just been left at the bottom of the shaft! But then what do you do about the counter-weight, which is heavier than the lift; leave that at the top?
|
|
|
Post by programmes1 on Dec 15, 2020 8:30:23 GMT
Thanks to all for the replies very interesting. The Aldwych video was great showing how the old lifts were I know that the ticket office was inside a different kind of car control.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 15, 2020 8:54:47 GMT
That’s entirely what bracing is. Given that the alternative was to remove the lifts completely, because they were life expired, I’m not sure what you expect to have happened...? Please enlighten us. I expected one of the lifts to be retained in working order, with suitably reduced loading capacity, for occasional demonstration use. The rest of the station has been preserved on these grounds. Historic beam-engines are often likewise preserved, along with locomotives, early motor cars and numerous other historic artefacts. It isn't even remotely unusual in the world of historic conservation. Another knee-jerk over-reaction by the organisers, applying rules based on daily mass-transit to a niche heritage operation. Sickening.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 15, 2020 9:24:18 GMT
That’s entirely what bracing is. Given that the alternative was to remove the lifts completely, because they were life expired, I’m not sure what you expect to have happened...? Please enlighten us. I expected one of the lifts to be retained in working order, with suitably reduced loading capacity, for occasional demonstration use. The rest of the station has been preserved on these grounds. Historic beam-engines are often likewise preserved, along with locomotives, early motor cars and numerous other historic artefacts. It isn't even remotely unusual in the world of historic conservation. Another knee-jerk over-reaction by the organisers, applying rules based on daily mass-transit to a niche heritage operation. Sickening. They weren't in working order so how could one be retained. Tours were not even considered when the station closed. When King's College was rebuilt about the time of the closure they did offer a possible link to Temple station which would not have needed the lifts. The offer was declined because of the limited patronage.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,785
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 15, 2020 12:12:07 GMT
AIUI the issue with the lifts was not one where a reduced loading capacity would make a blind bit of difference. Approximately the same amount of money would have been required to be spent to make it safe for 2 people as for its original capacity. The only choices were short term closure for a complete replacement/refurbishment of the lifts or permanent closure, there was no third option.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 15, 2020 12:31:59 GMT
It’s also worth noting that the second lift is the backup for when the first fails, to provide a cross-car transfer and rescue. Retaining just one operational lift was equally not an option.
|
|
|
Post by zbang on Dec 15, 2020 18:15:41 GMT
But then what do you do about the counter-weight, which is heavier than the lift; leave that at the top?
If the ropes are cut, it'll find it's way to the bottom . Safe thing would be to carefully lower it down and then unload the weights.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 15, 2020 20:55:19 GMT
But then what do you do about the counter-weight, which is heavier than the lift; leave that at the top?
If the ropes are cut, it'll find it's way to the bottom . Safe thing would be to carefully lower it down and then unload the weights. And of course, given brigham’s desire was that the lifts were to remain operational for occasional use, that would be a completely infeasible solution. As ever, transport professionals did actually put some thought into the final solution.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 16, 2020 8:31:59 GMT
I expected one of the lifts to be retained in working order, with suitably reduced loading capacity, for occasional demonstration use. The rest of the station has been preserved on these grounds. Historic beam-engines are often likewise preserved, along with locomotives, early motor cars and numerous other historic artefacts. It isn't even remotely unusual in the world of historic conservation. Another knee-jerk over-reaction by the organisers, applying rules based on daily mass-transit to a niche heritage operation. Sickening. They weren't in working order so how could one be retained. I wasn't aware that the station had been in operation without the lifts. That must have reduced the already-low patronage even further!
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 16, 2020 9:43:23 GMT
They weren't in working order so how could one be retained. I wasn't aware that the station had been in operation without the lifts. That must have reduced the already-low patronage even further! In order to be safety compliant, the lifts would have needed replacing at a cost of £3million hence one of the reasons for the closure. The phrase "They weren't in working order..." reflects this, not that they weren't used at all. Perhaps the insertion of the words 'good working order' would be more accurate. I suppose a simile would be a car that's likely to fail an MOT being considered not to be in good working order but permitted to be driven legally up until the MOT date. Certainly by the date the station was considered for museum status, the lifts were life expired and therefore illegal for carrying people.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 16, 2020 18:17:13 GMT
The decision to render the lifts permanently inoperable, rather than conserve them for possible demonstration use in a museum situation, was at best short-sighted, and at worst an act of philistinism. As time moves on, this fact will begin to become more and more obvious. I suspect that, even now, this location is the only place left on the whole of the Yerkes tube system where the original lifts are still in situ, even in butchered form. Hopefully, a future project will see at least one of these historic machines refurbished, and made once again able to operate on a demonstration basis within this museum site. Circumstances have bequeathed us the opportunity to preserve an entire Edwardian tube station. We must not miss it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 16, 2020 19:30:36 GMT
They weren't in working order so how could one be retained. I wasn't aware that the station had been in operation without the lifts. That must have reduced the already-low patronage even further! It wasn't. An assessment was made that they couldn't remain in service.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 16, 2020 19:45:19 GMT
The decision to render the lifts permanently inoperable, rather than conserve them for possible demonstration use in a museum situation, was at best short-sighted, and at worst an act of philistinism. As time moves on, this fact will begin to become more and more obvious. I suspect that, even now, this location is the only place left on the whole of the Yerkes tube system where the original lifts are still in situ, even in butchered form. Hopefully, a future project will see at least one of these historic machines refurbished, and made once again able to operate on a demonstration basis within this museum site. Circumstances have bequeathed us the opportunity to preserve an entire Edwardian tube station. We must not miss it. The Museum was not at Covent Garden at the time. The lifts were not fit for continued service when the station was closed. Tours of the station are a much more recent innovation to raise money for the Museum. It is not part of the Museum which is a charity and is struggling to maintain the existing collection. If refurbishment had been a lower cost option at the time of the closure it might have been done. They needed replacement. The interior of a lift can be seen as part of the tours. What more would be achieved by making it go up and down? You wouldn't see anything else. The secure nature of the lift allows those on the tour to enter the bottom of the shaft and observe the structure.
|
|