gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 1, 2024 10:56:38 GMT
I nearly asked the same question when just a bit upthread the subject of delivery came up. I thought I had read quite recently - within very recent weeks - there had been a change of Siemens' plan and now almost all build would be at Goole not imported - but of course that does not answer proportion of components or sub-assemblies imports as incomplete trains for final assembly here. Interesting question but note the 2 sides to the coin:- Quality (& hence reliability) probably better if established design, manufacture & assembly used. Economically & maintenance repair support may be better if facilities developed in this country. |
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 210
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Post by gefw on Aug 1, 2024 11:01:51 GMT
The 24TS is not composed of three car subunits, or subunits of any other length. It is a single nine car train, alternating between "Key" cars with bogies, and intermediate cars without. The 24TS is never intended to be split up after it leaves the factory. All trains will travel from the factory to London by rail in nine car units. The three car train on a low loader was a one off trip to the climate testing chamber, before that train had been fully assembled. Understood that 24TS & S stock are designed not to be easily split - but being pedantic it must be possible and likely during certain overhaul/major refurb activities. No doubt some device will be made to support the end of the IM car as necessary (attaching to the chassis/jacking points) |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 1, 2024 11:21:11 GMT
Understood that 24TS & S stock are designed not to be easily split - but being pedantic it must be possible and likely during certain overhaul/major refurb activities. definitely!  |
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Post by d7666 on Aug 1, 2024 12:18:19 GMT
The 24TS is not composed of three car subunits, or subunits of any other length. It is a single nine car train, alternating between "Key" cars with bogies, and intermediate cars without. The 24TS is never intended to be split up after it leaves the factory. All trains will travel from the factory to London by rail in nine car units. The three car train on a low loader was a one off trip to the climate testing chamber, before that train had been fully assembled. Understood that 24TS & S stock are designed not to be easily split - but being pedantic it must be possible and likely during certain overhaul/major refurb activities. There is some mis quoting there - I never wrote the text that has been left there as a D7666 quote but lost in this one the way the form does these things. |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 1, 2024 22:45:07 GMT
When do we think the first train will enter service? The FoI reply points out: General references have talked of the first train in London in 2024, and into passenger service in 2025. Other slides in this presentation refer to quarters in the year. Surely these tie in with the financial planning process, so that Q1 starts in April, leaving Q4 to end in March. If this is the case, then there is no difference between "quarter four of 2025" and ‘Early 2026’! That is without programme slippage during testing, which we have seen with the new DLR trains. |
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Post by matthewbsstock on Aug 4, 2024 14:46:54 GMT
Just wondering when the frist is due in the uk
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Post by xtmw on Aug 4, 2024 18:50:25 GMT
The first train is due to arrive on LU metals later this year
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Post by grumpycat on Aug 5, 2024 11:08:58 GMT
Just wondering when the frist is due in the uk Apparently within the next few weeks to later this year probably |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 5, 2024 12:24:07 GMT
yes and then comes oodles of testing, including making sure that the trains actually fit the tunnels, station platforms, other infrastructure (it has happened that they dont!!) followed by staff training and the happy day that fare paying passengers are finally allowed to travel on them. Perhaps first as a preview service, as per the S8 Wembley Park - Watford service.
hopefully these processes will be faster than seen with the DLR's B23 fleet, the Class 710. 701 fleets etc
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Post by matthewbsstock on Aug 5, 2024 12:33:06 GMT
yes and then comes oodles of testing, including making sure that the trains actually fit the tunnels, station platforms, other infrastructure (it has happened that they dont!!) followed by staff training and the happy day that fare paying passengers are finally allowed to travel on them. Perhaps first as a preview service, as per the S8 Wembley Park - Watford service. hopefully these processes will be faster than seen with the DLR's B23 fleet, the Class 710. 701 fleets etc thanks |
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Post by A60stock on Aug 5, 2024 16:21:33 GMT
If a preview service is used, where would this be? I would guess Action Town to Rayners lane as there is no other section I can think of where you would avoid holding up the main line (without having to go into central london)
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 5, 2024 17:00:53 GMT
I'm not aware of any plans for a preview service, but if there was to be one I would not expect it to be on the Rayners Lane branch, as this still needs quite a lot of enabling work.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 5, 2024 17:36:56 GMT
I remember reading somewhere that Acton Town to Rayners Lane would be the penultimate section of line to be served by 24 stock (Rayners Lane to Uxbridge being the final section).
I don't remember what bit of line was going to be first, but services terminating at Arnos Grove or Northfields are a possibility.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 5, 2024 20:48:21 GMT
The FOi document posted by jimbo on 27 July (pg.13 and map) lists the migration areas of predicted passenger services: MA2B, MA4A, MA4B, MA5 = Northfields-Cockfosters (1st) MA3A, MA3B = Northfields-Heathrow (2nd) MA2A Acton Town-Rayners Lane (3rd) MA1A Rayners Lane-Uxbridge (4th) |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 7, 2024 17:05:29 GMT
oh dear, the best bit is last! (track sharing with the Met's S8s)
For a preview service that is about as real-world useful (for most passengers) as the Wembley Park - Watford extras were to most passengers who used the normal services from Baker Street / Aldgate ... how about Cockfosters - Arnos Grove?
That way there can be the positive PR of announcing that the trains are finally carrying passengers whilst not running a service upon which passengers rely on for real-world travel needs
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 7, 2024 18:49:15 GMT
If such a service was to run, something from the west would have to be turned short to compensate and make space at Cockfosters where the platforms are very heavily utilised for most of the day (each platform is generally only empty for around two minutes).
Let's say, for example that a Cockfosters service was to be turned short at Arnos Grove in the middle platform, and the passengers would need to change onto the 24TS 'preview' shuttle. This would have to come out of the sidings into the EB platform to facilitate cross-platform interchange, and through passengers would need to make an unnecessary change at Arnos Grove.
On the return leg, the opposite would apply, and the 24TS train would then need to detrain and cross both the EB and WB to reverse in the sidings, delaying the through service while the train is emptied of passengers and crosses over to reverse.
Arnos Grove centre platform already reverses a train E-W every twenty minutes, and these trains have a (roughly) seven minute layover. Should a preview service be introduced (and this is getting into FRIPAS territory) I suspect it would probably only be able to run every 40 minutes or so and would rather get in the way of the through service; which means it would likely to be cancelled at the first hint of disruption. It would probably be of negligible benefit (arguably a considerable drawback as it takes a valuable path for a through train) and be more of a headache than anything else.
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Post by jimbo on Aug 7, 2024 21:09:31 GMT
Does that mean it will operate a scheduled service as there's no room for extra paths in the timetable?
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
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Post by gefw on Aug 8, 2024 7:41:01 GMT
Judging by the testing programme/phases for the other stocks (ie DLR & 92 stock) there are several significant steps to gain passenger carrying approval.
Night time/closures for testing have already been discussed.
Then there is typically non passenger carrying mileage accumulation - Do you think there is scope in the timetable for non passenger carrying test paths at the east end, or will the Rayners Lane branch (MA2A & MA1) be ready by then ?
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Post by Tom on Aug 10, 2024 18:49:02 GMT
Does that mean it will operate a scheduled service as there's no room for extra paths in the timetable? I don't know what timetable changes might be around the corner, but as it currently stands there aren't any stand alone paths that it could take up. No doubt as the time gets closer this may well change. |
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Post by joshua on Aug 12, 2024 14:27:51 GMT
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 12, 2024 18:03:27 GMT
The Bakerloo line train in that report was formed of 1959 stock, not 1972 stock. 1972 stock wasn't running on the Bakerloo line in 1986. It's also worth observing that the report quotes the solebar height and not the floor height - the floor is above the solebar. |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2024 18:28:46 GMT
Note slide 10 has sample data dated 15 Nov 2022 in the rolling stock line showing train 1 delivered July 2024, with train 2 some six months later, but then the first five trains delivered within a couple of months and before April 2025. Further undated deliveries progress until February 2027 reaches 87 trains. Now these dates must have slipped, but it looks like the first three trains from Goole must be on their way soon to provide a prompt start to staff training and passenger services! This is different to the Victoria Line stock, which trialed only two trains for some time. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 6, 2024 11:18:48 GMT
The mock-up prototype Piccadilly line cab has been donated to the South Yorkshire Transport Museum in Rotherham and will be on display from this Sunday. The following is screenshot of their post on Facebook.  |
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 7, 2024 12:19:32 GMT
South Yorkshire?
Surely it should be somewhere like LT Museum or the living museum at Quainton Road, as these have a more 'London' focus?
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Post by Chris W on Sept 7, 2024 16:21:19 GMT
Don't forget that most of the 24 Tube Stock are going to be built nearby (just under 30 miles away in Goole, Yorkshire), so there is, at least, a tenuous link... although the NRM at York is closer !
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Post by jimbo on Sept 11, 2024 10:03:25 GMT
Note slide 10 has sample data dated 15 Nov 2022 in the rolling stock line showing train 1 delivered July 2024, with train 2 some six months later, but then the first five trains delivered within a couple of months and before April 2025. Further undated deliveries progress until February 2027 reaches 87 trains. Now these dates must have slipped, but it looks like the first three trains from Goole must be on their way soon to provide a prompt start to staff training and passenger services! This is different to the Victoria Line stock, which trialed only two trains for some time. And the first intermediate car is under construction at Goole - see Secrets of the London Underground S4 E9 ∙ Gloucester Road - from 27 mins. Also shows how the cars will move around the site! Looks like T3 onward will come from Goole, with the body shells arriving from Europe. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Sept 11, 2024 13:06:58 GMT
The Secrets of the Underground episode was filmed some time ago. Based on a presentation given yesterday, 10 or 11 bodies are now in Goole.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 14, 2024 7:49:50 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 15, 2024 22:31:24 GMT
erm, am I reading this correctly - longer trains but lower passenger capacity???
shakes head in astonished disbelief
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Post by jimbo on Sept 16, 2024 6:10:50 GMT
Will the production trains vary in any way from the two prototypes? Has anything been learnt from the trials to change the production version? Will the first two trains be modified to match? Is the change in passenger capacity a result of these trials?
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