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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 21, 2022 22:16:32 GMT
Was sent this in my dms and it looks good. How is the pre production carriage going along aswell? Some more pics with the mayor London Underground: Sadiq Khan visits Goole Tube trains factoryLondon mayor Sadiq Khan has used a visit to a Yorkshire factory making new Tube trains to call for more long-term government funding for similar work.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-60820915
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Post by fish7373 on Mar 21, 2022 22:22:58 GMT
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Post by modeng2000 on Mar 22, 2022 7:31:19 GMT
Just wondering where the other 50% are going to be built. The tv coverage left me with the impression that all the trains were going to be built at Goole.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 22, 2022 7:53:34 GMT
Just wondering where the other 50% are going to be built. The tv coverage left me with the impression that all the trains were going to be built at Goole. Siemens has a facility near Vienna
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Post by jimbo on Mar 22, 2022 9:15:29 GMT
i'm unclear if 50% of trains will be built in UK or if 50% of work will be done in UK, i.e. part assembled in Vienna.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 22, 2022 10:39:08 GMT
Not sure. If I remember the body shells the 1995/1996 tube stock were fabricated in Spain and assembled in Washwood Heath - Birmingham.
A similar thing may happen here.
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Post by quex on Mar 22, 2022 11:27:35 GMT
Driver's seat looks like hard plastic? I assume (or rather hope!) that this is just for the mock-up and not intended for the final design!
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Post by bigvern on Mar 22, 2022 11:47:22 GMT
Second modification will be removal of the armrests before people kick them off when in service as they did on the Central Line 92's
The First mod is a larger cab for the instructors seat
Designers do not learn from previous builds.
The grab rails by the doorways and recessed in ceiling do look quite unsightly and awkward.
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Post by quex on Mar 22, 2022 11:56:26 GMT
Second modification will be removal of the armrests before people kick them off when in service as they did on the Central Line 92's The W&C 92s, the refurbished 73 Stock, the 96 Stock, the 95 Stock, the 09 Stock, and the S stock, and the 378s and 710s on LO, all seem to have managed with armrests fine. The original 92TS design featured frangible joints so armrests would safely break off in a collision, which make them easy to remove, but this was remedied for on the W&C trains and presumably subsequent rolling stock builds.
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Post by d7666 on Mar 22, 2022 13:19:16 GMT
Just wondering where the other 50% are going to be built. The tv coverage left me with the impression that all the trains were going to be built at Goole. Siemens has a facility near Vienna Siemens has several facilities across the world, and are not averse to swapping around what work each does. The big plant closer to GB than Wien is Krefeld in Germany, where GB 700/707/717, and a lot of GB stuff before that, was built \ assembled. I doubt there is a single factory in the world of any maker that does 100% of anything, and not only that, I doubt too there is one who sources everything from within their own land's borders. The only reason anyone refers to % content of this that and the other is to appease politicians needing spin who are looking after their seat and not a lot more.
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Post by Chris L on Mar 22, 2022 13:20:27 GMT
Second modification will be removal of the armrests before people kick them off when in service as they did on the Central Line 92's The First mod is a larger cab for the instructors seat Designers do not learn from previous builds. The grab rails by the doorways and recessed in ceiling do look quite unsightly and awkward. The armrests look much more substantial than the 92s. The cabs are already being enlarged. Previous design approval had to be given in Zoom meetings. The grab rails are not recessed.
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Post by v52gc on Mar 22, 2022 14:09:04 GMT
The sections of saloon by the articulated sections are quite long, I don’t know if they’ll be the same 6 seats long either side, but that will increase dwell times for loading and unloading, it’ll be like having a double ender middle cab each articulated section… It’s a long bit of saloon with no doors in essence…
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 22, 2022 15:59:13 GMT
The sections of saloon by the articulated sections are quite long, I don’t know if they’ll be the same 6 seats long either side, but that will increase dwell times for loading and unloading, it’ll be like having a double ender middle cab each articulated section… It’s a long bit of saloon with no doors in essence… The next pair of double doors is two windows past the articulation, so less than 6-seats.
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 22, 2022 21:54:49 GMT
The sections of saloon by the articulated sections are quite long, I don’t know if they’ll be the same 6 seats long either side, but that will increase dwell times for loading and unloading, it’ll be like having a double ender middle cab each articulated section… It’s a long bit of saloon with no doors in essence… The next pair of double doors is two windows past the articulation, so less than 6-seats. In the bridge cars, there's planned to be two seats between the gangway and the first doorway. Siemens make all their bogies in Graz, Austria. I'm sure they have a central location where they make traction equipment, but I don't know where. The first train is being built in Vienna, a large factory used to manufacturing aluminium vehicles. I don't believe anyone has yet declared whether Goole will be able to manufacture the bodies or whether they will assemble everything on bodies manufactured elsewhere.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 23, 2022 0:24:04 GMT
The double doorways are spread evenly along the train. The bogies are not!
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Post by ijmad on Mar 24, 2022 17:12:35 GMT
Is there a seat plan and door layout floating about anywhere yet?
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Post by melikepie on Mar 24, 2022 17:49:42 GMT
Will the mouthful of NTfL stock ever be shortened e.g. to N Stock or 24 Stock or something?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 24, 2022 18:18:01 GMT
AIUI the trains on the Piccadilly line will be 2024 stock, future orders for other lines will similarly be designated with the year of planned entry into service. NTFL is the name for the family of stock types, comparable to Crossrail Class 345s and London Overground Class 710s (among others) being part of the Aventra family.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 24, 2022 18:39:58 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 24, 2022 23:10:26 GMT
I think it was Tom Edwards (the BBC reporter) who in a TV News report talked about the trains having a 'space age' ambience. He said this whilst standing next to a floor to ceiling grab rail that has a circular light unit around its top - as seen in this image: My view is that what we see here is nothing that special, nor new - we've known a fair bit about the core design of the new trains for some years. Tom Edwards did tweet about these trains a few days ago, and at the time I replied ... some of what I said has already been discussed in the SSR / S Stock train section. Somewhat reluctantly I've come to accept that since few British people know and appreciate how things (in this case on-train route and stopping information) are done 'far better' overseas (even in cities as close as Paris & Dublin) so they do not know what they are missing. Admittedly it might have been harder to create the display units in the days of coloured LED's, but surely this is not the case with flat screen LCDs, and therefore there is much more real-time information that could be shown, in diagrammatic format (so ideal for all - even people who can barely read our alphabet), than will be available on these trains. btw, in his YouTube Geoff Marshall showed a different seat fabric design and said that it is what will be seen on these trains. btw, these trains were showcased at an exhibition at Kings Cross station in autumn 2014, below are two photos of mine which may be of interest in showing some aspects of how the train's design has / has not changed. P1330248P1330238
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Post by fish7373 on Apr 1, 2022 16:48:19 GMT
Hi i have seen all the plans for the new 24 stock and the The bogies to the present type on the underground is totally different design Which is WOW No wonder they want to build a new depot and why knocking down Northfields Depot One thing on the Bogies the frames will be inside the wheel sets.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Apr 3, 2022 21:57:29 GMT
I think the mock-up looks quite nice, it would be weird seeing something different though. What I'm intrigued about is how the traction motors will sound, and also the announcements. I remember reading on here that it would be some sort of speech synthesis software - perhaps like the DLR? Is there perhaps more information on this?
Also I'm sorry but reading "new 24" or "N24" only makes me think of one thing...
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Post by fish7373 on Apr 3, 2022 23:06:22 GMT
The traction motors are AC with a gear box AndrewPSSP
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Post by ijmad on Apr 4, 2022 0:10:26 GMT
I think the mock-up looks quite nice, it would be weird seeing something different though. What I'm intrigued about is how the traction motors will sound, and also the announcements. I remember reading on here that it would be some sort of speech synthesis software - perhaps like the DLR? Is there perhaps more information on this? They are based on the Siemens Inspiro family so they might sound similar to these trains that are some of the newest Inspiros in service on the Warsaw Metro: Then again, they might do something unique for LU given its unique requirements. Probably no chopping though.
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Post by jimbo on Apr 5, 2022 7:52:33 GMT
Is there a seat plan and door layout floating about anywhere yet? At 23:40 here for half of train; presume balance is a mirror image. (Video previously linked in this thread.)
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Post by jimbo on Jun 1, 2022 4:57:10 GMT
In August 2021 Siemens began manufacture of the first car, starting with the shortest, the intermediate (wheel-less) car. Presume all cars are basically similar, so this will test assembly methods, appearance, etc in the cheapest way. Other cars in the first train will then follow on from this. Phase one of the line upgrade is forecast to complete in 2027. [TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2021/22 (30 May – 21 August 2021)]. On 16 May 2022, Siemens completed the first intermediate car body shell for the new Piccadilly Line trains. The intermediate car has an innovative design, supported between the key motor and driving motor cars. This means fewer bogies and a smoother ride. Work is continuing to finish the key motor cars and begin assembly of the driving motor car. (TfL Commissioner’s report - June 2022) So it's been a while in the making! Looks like they are working outwards from there, finishing with the end driving motor cars. I presume they will be testing a 9-car train, or will they start with a shorter version?
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Post by ted672 on Jun 1, 2022 9:27:04 GMT
So it's been a while in the making! Looks like they are working outwards from there, finishing with the end driving motor cars. I presume they will be testing a 9-car train, or will they start with a shorter version? I can't help wondering what the benefit would be of testing with a shorter train. Given that tech can be a bit touchy, seven cars may work fine, but add the extra two and, "computers says no!". I realise it worked with the class 345s, but they were much more conventional in design. While there is some urgency to get on with the job, the potential for issues after a shorter train has tested OK may mean the delay in producing and testing the full nine cars would be worth the wait.
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Post by grumpycat on Jun 2, 2022 3:43:43 GMT
In August 2021 Siemens began manufacture of the first car, starting with the shortest, the intermediate (wheel-less) car. Presume all cars are basically similar, so this will test assembly methods, appearance, etc in the cheapest way. Other cars in the first train will then follow on from this. Phase one of the line upgrade is forecast to complete in 2027. [TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2021/22 (30 May – 21 August 2021)]. On 16 May 2022, Siemens completed the first intermediate car body shell for the new Piccadilly Line trains. The intermediate car has an innovative design, supported between the key motor and driving motor cars. This means fewer bogies and a smoother ride. Work is continuing to finish the key motor cars and begin assembly of the driving motor car. (TfL Commissioner’s report - June 2022) So it's been a while in the making! Looks like they are working outwards from there, finishing with the end driving motor cars. I presume they will be testing a 9-car train, or will they start with a shorter version? Hoping there's a picture
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Post by jimbo on Jun 4, 2022 21:19:37 GMT
So it's been a while in the making! Looks like they are working outwards from there, finishing with the end driving motor cars. I presume they will be testing a 9-car train, or will they start with a shorter version? I can't help wondering what the benefit would be of testing with a shorter train. Given that tech can be a bit touchy, seven cars may work fine, but add the extra two and, "computers says no!". I realise it worked with the class 345s, but they were much more conventional in design. While there is some urgency to get on with the job, the potential for issues after a shorter train has tested OK may mean the delay in producing and testing the full nine cars would be worth the wait. Of course the new train is also intended to operate as 11 car on the Central Line and only 5 car on the Waterloo & City Line. The 345 class have had trouble with updates to different software for the 7 car and 9 car versions. However, the source of that thought has now come back to me! The collapse of Metronet in July 2007 left LU with responsibility for providing new trains on the Bakerloo line due by 2020, and it seems that prior Space Train ideas were revived. It was soon decided to add replacement of the troublesome Central line trains to this project to obtain a larger order size to absorb development costs. The Waterloo & City line trains were added to the plans later, to avoid a remnant fleet of non-standard trains. At this time the first production train was expected in 2018, with a prototype Bakerloo line train to be delivered by 2015 according to grant milestones. This was later varied to only require delivery of a demonstrator, not necessarily a full length train, but in the 2013-14 underground plan this milestone was further varied to only require an invitation to tender for the first phase to be issued by the end of 2015. The acquisition of the remaining PPP company (Tube Lines in May 2010) led to a more urgent need for new trains for the Piccadilly line, scheduled for 2012-14. So this project goes back to 2007, or even to the Space Train ideas of late last century! Source: LUNews article August 2018
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Post by xtmw on Jun 4, 2022 23:42:29 GMT
I can't help wondering what the benefit would be of testing with a shorter train. Given that tech can be a bit touchy, seven cars may work fine, but add the extra two and, "computers says no!". I realise it worked with the class 345s, but they were much more conventional in design. While there is some urgency to get on with the job, the potential for issues after a shorter train has tested OK may mean the delay in producing and testing the full nine cars would be worth the wait. Of course the new train is also intended to operate as 11 car on the Central Line and only 5 car on the Waterloo & City Line. The 345 class have had trouble with updates to different software for the 7 car and 9 car versions. However, the source of that thought has now come back to me! The collapse of Metronet in July 2007 left LU with responsibility for providing new trains on the Bakerloo line due by 2020, and it seems that prior Space Train ideas were revived. It was soon decided to add replacement of the troublesome Central line trains to this project to obtain a larger order size to absorb development costs. The Waterloo & City line trains were added to the plans later, to avoid a remnant fleet of non-standard trains. At this time the first production train was expected in 2018, with a prototype Bakerloo line train to be delivered by 2015 according to grant milestones. This was later varied to only require delivery of a demonstrator, not necessarily a full length train, but in the 2013-14 underground plan this milestone was further varied to only require an invitation to tender for the first phase to be issued by the end of 2015. The acquisition of the remaining PPP company (Tube Lines in May 2010) led to a more urgent need for new trains for the Piccadilly line, scheduled for 2012-14. So this project goes back to 2007, or even to the Space Train ideas of late last century! Looks like a lot of weekend closures will be in place to extend platforms! Unless the cars will be smaller..
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