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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 21, 2019 21:15:22 GMT
I was musing earlier about how many stations retain the original, faster UTS gates. Is there a programme for replacement or is it only on major works that they are changed over?
I always recall the two major exceptions to be Finsbury Park and Camden Town - both are now gated (albeit partially in the case of Finsbury Park). Does that mean every station now has a gateline?
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Post by superteacher on Aug 21, 2019 21:18:30 GMT
I was musing earlier about how many stations retain the original, faster UTS gates. Is there a programme for replacement or is it only on major works that they are changed over? I always recall the two major exceptions to be Finsbury Park and Camden Town - both are now gated (albeit partially in the case of Finsbury Park). Does that mean every station now has a gateline? Roding Valley doesn’t.
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 21, 2019 21:28:41 GMT
I was musing earlier about how many stations retain the original, faster UTS gates. Is there a programme for replacement or is it only on major works that they are changed over? I always recall the two major exceptions to be Finsbury Park and Camden Town - both are now gated (albeit partially in the case of Finsbury Park). Does that mean every station now has a gateline? Generally only major works will see the original pneumatic gates removed; they are still maintained, refined and upgraded by Cubic as part of what was the Prestige contract (essentially the contract that covers ticketing on LUL). There is a desire to remove P-gates where possible as it also simplifies other aspects of the network. P-gates (generally) run off the air main (the same air system that powers points and train stops etc), a very costly (but important) part of the infrastructure. As points are converted to electrical operation and trainstops removed, it becomes harder to justify the retention of the air main. As far as stations with P-gates goes, Edgware Road SSR, Piccadilly Circus, Euston Square all spring to mind.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 21, 2019 21:56:09 GMT
Baker Street and Bank are others. I believe I’m correct in saying that no station outside of zone 1 ever had them.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 22, 2019 2:52:48 GMT
Baker Street and Bank are others. I believe I’m correct in saying that no station outside of zone 1 ever had them. In the original scheme only Zone 1 stations were gated on the basis that most journeys started or finished there. Currently there are no gates at Moorgate on the Met entrances/exits.
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Post by moogal on Aug 22, 2019 15:42:55 GMT
Goodge Street has them.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 22, 2019 17:31:24 GMT
I actually prefer the original ones - much quicker to open.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 22, 2019 19:29:44 GMT
I actually prefer the original ones - much quicker to open. And much quicker to close, which I would guess would be more likely to cause injury - I saw two gateline incidents today. At Whitechapel a lady was separated from her wheeled suitcase when the gates closed on her wrist (I heard her claim the wide gate wouldn't let her through, I don't know if this was true and if so why), she didn't seem injured. At West Hampstead (Jubilee) a man pushed through the barriers after a not completely successful attempt to tailgate. He too was not injured (but he did attempt to board a train that was being tipped out).
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 24, 2019 9:50:33 GMT
At West Hampstead (Jubilee) a man pushed through the barriers after a not completely successful attempt to tailgate. He too was not injured (but he did attempt to board a train that was being tipped out).
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Post by su31 on Aug 24, 2019 22:07:52 GMT
Marble Arch has some. Part of the gateline was upgraded to the newer E2 gates and a WAG (wide aisle gate) at each end of it back in 2012. It amused me because the previous year’s refurb meant new tiles on the ticket hall floor, only for half of them being dug up because of the gateline changes.
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Post by underover on Aug 25, 2019 13:55:49 GMT
Some wide gates swap between two directions, so as a result, you need to hold your card against the reader for a few seconds before they open sometimes. A lot of people don't seem to understand this, so maybe this was the case?
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Post by Chris M on Aug 25, 2019 14:15:10 GMT
Could be. Now you mention it I'm sure I've seen a wide gate with somewhere with a note saying to hold your card on the reader for 5(?) seconds. Maybe Debden?
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Post by futurix on Aug 27, 2019 17:07:45 GMT
Some wide gates swap between two directions, so as a result, you need to hold your card against the reader for a few seconds before they open sometimes. A lot of people don't seem to understand this, so maybe this was the case? You just need to wait for the light next to the reader to turn green. Although it's rather odd way to implement two way gates.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 27, 2019 20:12:46 GMT
A lot of the two way gates have dynotape or scribbled notes stuck to them with sellotape regarding holding the card for a number of seconds. Presumably the technology can't cope with monitoring two readers so switches between them on a timer.
I too prefer the original gates, far quicker to operate and less faff. I'm sure I've seen them outside zone 1 though can't think off the top of my head for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 17:10:36 GMT
The air man will remain for many many years
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Post by Chris L on Aug 28, 2019 18:40:20 GMT
A lot of the two way gates have dynotape or scribbled notes stuck to them with sellotape regarding holding the card for a number of seconds. Presumably the technology can't cope with monitoring two readers so switches between them on a timer. I too prefer the original gates, far quicker to operate and less faff. I'm sure I've seen them outside zone 1 though can't think off the top of my head for sure. There are differences in the speed that payment methods work. Oyster is quickest, followed by bank cards and then mobile phones. The latter is made worse by people who don't have the app open before getting to the gate.
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Post by 35b on Aug 28, 2019 20:03:09 GMT
A lot of the two way gates have dynotape or scribbled notes stuck to them with sellotape regarding holding the card for a number of seconds. Presumably the technology can't cope with monitoring two readers so switches between them on a timer. I too prefer the original gates, far quicker to operate and less faff. I'm sure I've seen them outside zone 1 though can't think off the top of my head for sure. There are differences in the speed that payment methods work. Oyster is quickest, followed by bank cards and then mobile phones. The latter is made worse by people who don't have the app open before getting to the gate. And those of us condemned to mag strip tickets because we’re unable to get our seasons on Oyster? The delay between ejecting the ticket and gate opening is extremely noticeable.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 28, 2019 20:11:48 GMT
35b Paragraph 3.2 of this memorandum from TfL to the Transport Select Committee in 2008 states . This suggests ~4 seconds per paper ticket and 1.5 seconds per Oyster card.
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Post by 35b on Aug 28, 2019 20:20:06 GMT
35b Paragraph 3.2 of this memorandum from TfL to the Transport Select Committee in 2008 states . This suggests ~4 seconds per paper ticket and 1.5 seconds per Oyster card. In which case, my question is why this should be. I’d expect more time to be required for tickets, because it’s a mechanical process with more for the person to do. But the delay between taking the card and the gate mechanism working is very noticeable - something that doesn’t make sense to this layman.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 28, 2019 20:29:17 GMT
It depends, too, on the familiarity of the user with the gates themselves. Any person requiring proof of this need only visit SK...
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Post by 35b on Aug 28, 2019 20:44:13 GMT
It depends, too, on the familiarity of the user with the gates themselves. Any person requiring proof of this need only visit SK... An experience to be avoided where possible... But I ask from my own observations of my own gate use. Even if incompetent, I’d expect a level of consistency between my journeys.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 28, 2019 21:42:51 GMT
I’m assuming SK is South Kensington?
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Post by Chris M on Aug 28, 2019 22:05:13 GMT
I’m assuming SK is South Kensington? Given that station is one end of Tomcakes ' commute, I can't imagine it being anything different in this context.
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Post by DWS on Aug 29, 2019 7:40:12 GMT
I’m assuming SK is South Kensington? We are not all aware of this persons commute, SK could be South Kenton .
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Post by Chris M on Aug 29, 2019 8:20:34 GMT
I’m assuming SK is South Kensington? We are not all aware of this persons commute, SK could be South Kenton . I do know that Tomcakes commutes to South Kensington, and that the other end of it is not South Kenton (I can't remember if they are public about where they live or not). From that context and from previous discussions I know that they were commenting on the large number of tourists (and others unfamiliar with LU gates) that frequent South Kensingotn station. Additionally, if memory serves, there are no gates at South Kenton.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 29, 2019 20:08:46 GMT
We are not all aware of this persons commute, SK could be South Kenton . I do know that Tomcakes commutes to South Kensington, and that the other end of it is not South Kenton (I can't remember if they are public about where they live or not). From that context and from previous discussions I know that they were commenting on the large number of tourists (and others unfamiliar with LU gates) that frequent South Kensingotn station. Additionally, if memory serves, there are no gates at South Kenton. Apologies for the shorthand, and thank you Chris for clarifying matters. I don't routinely put where I live nor the exact place I work online. I like Chris's reference to the fact that I had passed comment previously... Perhaps not in terms appropriate for repetition on a family friendly forum! But yes, South Kensington is especially bad for the tourist problem. Perhaps the new and improved gateline will solve matters, but we shall see.
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Post by coyote on Aug 30, 2019 15:50:33 GMT
Sorry can’t get the pics to load, or access the tutorial on how to. The pics show the real original gates.
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 30, 2019 16:08:03 GMT
Sorry can’t get the pics to load, or access the tutorial on how to. The pics show the real original gates. I think this is what you were trying to link to. Untitled by d coyote, on Flickr Untitled by d coyote, on Flickr
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 30, 2019 18:57:06 GMT
Sorry can’t get the pics to load, or access the tutorial on how to. The pics show the real original gates. Admin comment, the tutorials are all under review given how the internet has progressed. Unfortunately we're all volunteers and life keeps holding up progress.
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 31, 2019 9:39:29 GMT
The air man will remain for many many years Good, I'd hate for him to be made redundant.
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