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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 7, 2018 14:11:39 GMT
Going on the old adage that "a fool and his money are soon parted", I acquired the destination blind and enclosure from a 1983 Tube Stock recently. Now, anyone who has worked on one of these previously may be able to second-guess my questions here, but (preparing for the inevitable long-shot)... - Does anyone have a spare connector plug that will fit into the wiring socket?
- If not, does anyone have a wiring diagram for the socket - the wires leaving it are numbered, so I assume that there would be a diagram that would indicate the designation of each of these wires.
- What voltage did the motor run at?
- Why, oh why couldn't they have stuck with the tried-and-tested crank-based method for moving the blind mechanism when designing the '83s?!
I have acquired a 1967 Stock blind too; again, with its enclosure - that looks a lot more friendly when it is opened! I shall upload pictures of both when I have a spare moment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2018 17:59:38 GMT
I assume then that each wire relates to a destination, so if you apply voltage to it, it will self wind to that destination/spot on the blind?
Personally, I would have a play with it, and work out the destination numbers for my self (they will most likely be in some sort of order though).
As for motor voltage, I would guess it would be either 12, 24 or 50/52V. Have a look for any marking on the motor, they are normally labelled.
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 7, 2018 20:51:34 GMT
Thanks for replying! I've identified that seven wires enter the enclosure - four of these run the lamp, two drive the motor and the seventh is the earth. The problem is that the motor controls are miles more elaborate than they needed to be - there are 'Up', 'Fast' and 'Down' buttons, and there's then a circuit board that seems to be linked to the buttons. All of the wires are colour-co-ordinated at their ends with a unique pattern and number, so it's 'simply' (he says) a case of tracing each termination...I think that I may need to draw it all out, in the style of 'Big Clive' from YouTube!
Fingers crossed that the motor contains the voltage information - from the angle that is visible when the rear panel of the enclosure is lifted, there's nothing, but maybe its running information will be plated on the other side...as the lamp would be running AC through (presumably) an inverter, would the motor be AC too? It's not considered good wiring practice to bunch AC and DC circuits.
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Post by t697 on Dec 8, 2018 6:34:09 GMT
The roller blind device would probably have run off the train's normal -52V DC control supply. Someone on here might have 1983TS schematics to confirm the connection details? If there is a G+ wire, that's the positive. The fluorescent lamp may have run from the 110V 850Hz lighting supply.
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 9, 2018 12:01:33 GMT
That's great - cheers! There's an independent hobby shop locally, and what they don't know about electronics isn't worth knowing. Thus, I've dropped them a line, in the hope that they might take a look and sort it out. I had hoped to upload a few images to the website at this point, but the FTP server seems to be having an off-day at present!
One thing that I have established, however, is that the lamp appears to have been made in the first week of September 1997 (or 2002, but this seems unlikely, given that no '83s would have been running by then), but this is reliant on General Electric's Budapest factory employing the same date coding system that their Enfield factory did!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 15:55:04 GMT
That's great - cheers! There's an independent hobby shop locally, and what they don't know about electronics isn't worth knowing. Thus, I've dropped them a line, in the hope that they might take a look and sort it out. I had hoped to upload a few images to the website at this point, but the FTP server seems to be having an off-day at present! One thing that I have established, however, is that the lamp appears to have been made in the first week of September 1997 (or 2002, but this seems unlikely, given that no '83s would have been running by then), but this is reliant on General Electric's Budapest factory employing the same date coding system that their Enfield factory did! Let me send you a message quickly
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 9, 2018 17:10:00 GMT
Just to add that the pictures have now uploaded; they can be seen here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. I will write up a page, and include more images, this week, if time permits.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 9, 2018 22:41:51 GMT
The plug connector is a 'Litton' connector - they're made to US Military spec and should be available still. That said it helps if you know which type you're looking for!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 9:27:15 GMT
Yeah, standard connector used on the underground (and a lot of other places). You can order them from RS components, and are sized normally by number of pins. That being said, requires a special crimp tool for the pins, but I see no harm in soldering wires into the pins.
Personally, if a drawing can not be found, I would remove the motor to try id operating voltage. You could then, while the motor is still disconnected, give it a quick test to make sure its operational still.
Am I right in thinking there are only 8 pins in via that connector? Should be fairly easy to get working looking at it, if you split it into circuits. You know one will control the motor, one for the lights etc
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 10, 2018 20:25:00 GMT
Most interesting - I'd not heard of 'Litton' connectors previously. This looks to be the sort of thing that would fit. I'll see if I can find one with a pre-wired cable attached. As you say, identifying the individual conductors should be relatively straightforward - it's just a case of matching the coloured ends. I'm just more used to playing with things that run on mains voltage!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 15:02:15 GMT
I have a few spares hidden away somewhere, but will need to have a look in the new year. I normally remove the pins when replacing the connectors, so I doubt I have any with pins already connected.
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 13, 2018 12:48:29 GMT
That's very kind, but don't go to too much trouble when looking for them - I've ordered one from "a well-known auction site" that I hope will fit. I'm going to try removing the motor bracket in the next couple of days and seeing whether any clues as to the operating voltage are provided on the hidden side of the motor.
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Post by tubelightonline on Dec 14, 2018 13:24:54 GMT
Apologies for the double-post, but the pages for both blinds are now online (the pictures linked earlier in the message will no longer work). Click below to see them: 1967 Stock blind
To add to my woes with the newer one, the screws that hold the rollers in place have seized, and you can't remove the motor and its frame without removing the rollers - I'll try again later, once the WD40 has sunk in! Here's where we find that it rots Tyvek...
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Post by tubelightonline on May 18, 2019 11:18:38 GMT
Well, it's taken a while, but I am (very) pleased to report that the blind motor has just run up and down the original Jubilee line for the first time in about 21 years! Soldering the seven-core cable into the MIL-spec connector was a bit of a fiddle, but this was achieved eventually. I had invested in a cheap 0 - 50 V DC bench power supply, and tried to run the motor circuit at 12 V (nothing), 24 V (nothing), 35 V (movement!!) and finally, the full 50 volts (continued movement, just marginally faster!).
I'm surprised at how slow the movement is, though - you need to press the 'Fast' middle button if you're scrolling for more than a couple of stations - or have more patience than I have - but then again, there are only ten possible things that the blind can show, so you wouldn't be there all day, even if you did need to scroll all the way up or down. The one good thing about the slow 'normal' speed is that it allows you to locate the corresponding number accurately in the inspection window, ensuring that the destination is aligned accurately outside, which may be part of the design.
I shall try to post a video of the mechanism in motion in the next few days...provided that it is still working then and I've not just nuked the internal circuit board!
( Edit - video should be below now: )
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 19:10:34 GMT
Well, it's taken a while, but I am (very) pleased to report that the blind motor has just run up and down the original Jubilee line for the first time in about 21 years! Soldering the seven-core cable into the MIL-spec connector was a bit of a fiddle, but this was achieved eventually. I had invested in a cheap 0 - 50 V DC bench power supply, and tried to run the motor circuit at 12 V (nothing), 24 V (nothing), 35 V (movement!!) and finally, the full 50 volts (continued movement, just marginally faster!). I'm surprised at how slow the movement is, though - you need to press the 'Fast' middle button if you're scrolling for more than a couple of stations - or have more patience than I have - but then again, there are only ten possible things that the blind can show, so you wouldn't be there all day, even if you did need to scroll all the way up or down. The one good thing about the slow 'normal' speed is that it allows you to locate the corresponding number accurately in the inspection window, ensuring that the destination is aligned accurately outside, which may be part of the design. I shall try to post a video of the mechanism in motion in the next few days...provided that it is still working then and I've not just nuked the internal circuit board! ( Edit - video should be below now: ) Well done. Normally they crimp the pins on those connectors which makes it a lot easier when assembling. That being said, I prefer solder for something like this as you can easily reuse pins etc
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Post by tubelightonline on May 18, 2019 21:43:14 GMT
Cheers - I did consider the crimp option, but the only types available seemed rather expensive, so I decided to fill my lungs with lead vapour instead, and crack out the soldering iron! I'll give the enclosure a bit of a surface clean, and then I'll wire up the lamp, which (he says) should be a little more straightforward!
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Post by tubelightonline on Jun 15, 2019 10:32:41 GMT
About a month after my last post, and I can report that the blind is installed and looks rather darned good, now that the light is operational too. The full write-up is available by clicking here, and a video of the blind working is shown below. One can only hope that the '67 Stock blind will be a little more friendly to work on! A very large "thank you" goes to everyone on here who offered advice on this project.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 15, 2019 10:37:47 GMT
About a month after my last post, and I can report that the blind is installed and looks rather darned good, now that the light is operational too. The full write-up is available by clicking here, and a video of the blind working is shown below. One can only hope that the '67 Stock blind will be a little more friendly to work on! A very large "thank you" goes to everyone on here who offered advice on this project. All looks great! you just need the rest of an ‘83 DM to build around it ! ‘67 Stock blind will be easier, as not motorised
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Post by tubelightonline on Jun 15, 2019 21:20:13 GMT
Much appreciated, though don't give me ideas like that! **Thinks whether it's too late to retrieve one of the ex-South Harrow carcasses from Booths**
Yes, in theory, the '67 should be easier in that respect, but I'm sure that it'll delight in finding a suitably troublesome spanner to throw into the works at some point!
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