Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 1, 2018 22:52:43 GMT
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 1, 2018 22:54:47 GMT
Hooray, a new route to that essential part of the transport network, the dangleway!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 1, 2018 22:56:29 GMT
Horizontally it may well be the closest station to the dangleway, but there is a significant vertical component that will need considering too!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 1, 2018 23:04:31 GMT
Parachute
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Post by londonstuff on Nov 1, 2018 23:07:04 GMT
Hooray, a new route to that essential part of the transport network, the dangleway! I’m having my second go at being twenty in a couple of months and in all that time I’m proud to say I’ve never: - eaten a kebab
- gone on the dangleway
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 1, 2018 23:14:49 GMT
Well then, your birthday present is obviously a kebab buffet on the dangleway!
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 2, 2018 1:39:25 GMT
Hooray, a new route to that essential part of the transport network, the dangleway! I’m having my second go at being twenty in a couple of months and in all that time I’m proud to say I’ve never: - eaten a kebab
- gone on the dangleway
You haven't lived.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 2, 2018 9:42:21 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 2, 2018 10:50:34 GMT
I'd give the Cable Car a miss and head for Dalston Kingsland, there are some excellent kebabs to be had around Kingsland High Road/Stoke Newington Road.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 2, 2018 11:00:31 GMT
Well this must be a contender for most bizarre veering off topic ever - new DLR station to kebabs! Anyway, back on topic please.
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Post by phil on Nov 2, 2018 16:41:13 GMT
IIRC this 'new' station was actually planned to be built as part of the London City airport branch over a decade ago!
However due to uncertainty as to the exact path of the northern approach to long proposed Silvertown / Blackwall relief tunnel, it was felt prudent not to go ahead with it. There was also the fact that said uncertainty of the road tunnel meant that no redevelopment could occur in the immediate area depressing passenger volumes.
With the alignment of the Silvertown tunnel northern approach now fixed, the DLR station (and redevelopment of the immediate area) can now go ahead.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2018 17:07:27 GMT
Just because passive provision is going to be utilised doesn't mean the station will not be new. Langdon Park was passively provided for from when the DLR first opened in 1987 until construction started in 2006 - it was still a new station when opened.
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Post by phil on Nov 2, 2018 18:53:23 GMT
Just because passive provision is going to be utilised doesn't mean the station will not be new. Langdon Park was passively provided for from when the DLR first opened in 1987 until construction started in 2006 - it was still a new station when opened. The station itself may be physically new - but the idea itself is not, which is kind of the point I was making. On most UK rail based transport networks, a ‘new’ station is just that (I.e. it was not planned to be there from the onset of the project (though I guess a station closed in the 1960s cuts but reopened in recent times could be said to have been ‘planed in’ from the beginning so to speak). Naturally the fact TfL / DLR are going to press forward and realise their previously made plans is to be welcomed but they are still not ‘new’ in concept.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 19:36:09 GMT
That's a bit too much of a pedantry I think - by this definition barely any station opening in Britain on existing railway would be considered new. That's not the definition of 'new' most people would think of.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 2, 2018 22:09:28 GMT
Certainly any station that opens where there wasn't a station recently is new from a passenger point of view. Meridian Water will be seen as a new station, even though it's effectively just Angel Road being moved a few hundred metres or so.
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 3, 2018 16:08:22 GMT
Certainly any station that opens where there wasn't a station recently is new from a passenger point of view. Meridian Water will be seen as a new station, even though it's effectively just Angel Road being moved a few hundred metres or so. On the thread subject first, be interesting to know from those who know/use/live in Docklands how Thames Wharf's passenger hinterland/catchment area and connectivity compare now to when the station was first mooted. Has it stayed the same do you think, or improved? The salient point re Meridian Water might be how many metres. Just thinking of JE Connor & the London Railway Record etc., I believe their criteria was that moving the platforms around +250 yards (sorry, but them was the measurements back in the 1950's/60's!) meant a re-sited station, anything less wasn't even considered re-sited. A newly-named station? Well, the present Eltham springs to mind, deliberately pitched between the then-extant Eltham Park & Eltham Well Hall stations so they could both be closed and something of a better bus interchange etc. could be made. That's what I'd call a new station. Meridian Water is 600m west, so would be regarded as new by most, especially if Angel Road gives up the ghost. On the general 'when is it a new station' question, I would venture to suggest once the first sod is cut on the station site above ground, platforms take shape below decks, or passageways and lift shafts are installed in between. In other words, just as the first brush of paint to the canvas begins the creation of a new work of art, so the first concrete action to build the station infrastructure marks the creation of a new station.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 3, 2018 16:24:43 GMT
Just thinking of JE Connor & the London Railway Record etc., I believe their criteria was that moving the platforms around +250 yards meant a re-sited station, anything less wasn't even considered re-sited. A newly-named station? Meridian Water is 600m west, so would be regarded as new by most, especially if Angel Road gives up the ghost. . Meridian Water is, surely, north of Angel Road, not west. A criterion for new vs re-sited used in some publications is that both the entrance and the platforms must be new - if any part of the platforms extends over any part of the site of the old ones it is not a new station.
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 3, 2018 16:34:12 GMT
Just thinking of JE Connor & the London Railway Record etc., I believe their criteria was that moving the platforms around +250 yards meant a re-sited station, anything less wasn't even considered re-sited. A newly-named station? Meridian Water is 600m west, so would be regarded as new by most, especially if Angel Road gives up the ghost. . Meridian Water is, surely, north of Angel Road, not west. A criterion for new vs re-sited used in some publications is that both the entrance and the platforms must be new - if any part of the platforms extends over any part of the site of the old ones it is not a new station. Yes, that's covered by the rough 250-yard rule, which also sweeps up the matter of platform extensions to service 10-coach trains etc. However, there are also anomalies where the entrance is moved to the other side of the road, and the new platforms are no more than 100 yards from the existing ones, even if there is no overlap. That criterion is still a useful basic yardstick to use as a definition of new.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 3, 2018 16:48:48 GMT
Where does Liverpool South Parkway sit in the scale of new Vs relocation then? On the AC line Allerton closed and then a year later Parkway opened with platforms on the same site but accessed a different way from a newly built concourse. So surely this is a rebuild rather than new. But On the DC line Garston station closed and the following day and the next day Parkway opened with newly built platforms; there was about 200feet between the platform ramps, so is this a relocation or a new station? So it's possibly a rebuild and a relocation; I'm happy just to call it new and now get bogged down in semantics!
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Post by silverfoxcc on Nov 3, 2018 17:22:35 GMT
I thought Meridian Water was being sited to the south of Angel Road ( but i havent been there for a while)
just needs someone to suggest west and we have it covered lol
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 3, 2018 18:50:18 GMT
I thought Meridian Water was being sited to the south of Angel Road ( but i havent been there for a while) just needs someone to suggest west and we have it covered lol My mistake - MW is on the London side of Angel Road, so south (and a little west!)
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 3, 2018 22:15:10 GMT
I thought Meridian Water was being sited to the south of Angel Road ( but i havent been there for a while) just needs someone to suggest west and we have it covered lol My mistake - MW is on the London side of Angel Road, so south (and a little west!) You won't believe this-wiki says it's 600m South West. This station could out to be the most discussed one in London, at least if anyone can decide just where they're supposed to build it!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 3, 2018 22:33:27 GMT
Based on Google Maps air photo, it is approximately 580 metres from the footbridge at Angel Road to the coordinates Wikipedia gives for Meridian Water (the air photo is too old to show any construction). If you're using a four point compass then it's south, an 8-point one and it's south west, a 16-point compass would call it south south west.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Nov 3, 2018 23:40:53 GMT
Back on topic please. We have a thread for the discussion of Angel Road and Merdian Water there. There is also a photo showing the view of Meridian Water station from Angel Road, so you can see how close it is.
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Post by phil on Nov 4, 2018 0:27:45 GMT
Certainly any station that opens where there wasn't a station recently is new from a passenger point of view. Meridian Water will be seen as a new station, even though it's effectively just Angel Road being moved a few hundred metres or so. However when the Lea Valley railway was opened in 1840 there were no plans for a station at Meridian Water!
There was admittedly station called 'Edmonton' planned (and duly constructed for the opening of the railway) - now known as Angel Road.
The DLR however opened with every intention of building a station at Thames Wharf in the future - just as Landon Park was planned in from the start on the Stratford branch.
True passengers might regard the stations as 'new' (and obviously from a physical perspective they will be new), they manifestly are not from a planning perspective.
While the distinction might not master to the wider public - I would generally expect better of members of this site, who are by their nature more interested in the history, planning and operational side of the railways and not just whatever press release TfL may say.
Thames Wharf and Langdon Park are thus not 'new' stations - they are ones where construction was postponed / paused / deferred for a decade or two till certain things were settled and it became favourable to commence construction. Meridian Water is (using the 250 yards rule) not 'new' either - it is a relocated and renamed Angel Road station.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 4, 2018 2:16:22 GMT
I disagree that just because a station was planned to be built that it isn't new when it actually is built. By that logic no station that opened with the railway would be new, as they was always the intention of building a station at e.g. Poplar right from the start. Also, the stations are unarguably new from an operational perspective. They are new from a historical and planning perspective too as all that was planned was "a station" at this (approximate) location - everything more detailed than that (exact location, layout, access routes, public realm, etc. originated after the railway was opened. Even if it just confirms previous ideas (although in the case of Langdon Park the provision was only for a station between All Saints and Devons Road, the exact location was determined by studies conducted years after the railway opened) then it is still new planning doing that confirming.
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Post by silenthunter on Nov 24, 2018 20:46:02 GMT
Hooray, a new route to that essential part of the transport network, the dangleway! I’m having my second go at being twenty in a couple of months and in all that time I’m proud to say I’ve never: - eaten a kebab
- gone on the dangleway
I've done both on more than one occasion. The dangleway isn't that bad; although it's not exactly essential.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 24, 2018 22:24:03 GMT
Hooray, a new route to that essential part of the transport network, the dangleway! I’m having my second go at being twenty in a couple of months........
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Post by flippyff on Dec 26, 2018 12:23:24 GMT
I hope this counts as 'on-topic' for this thread... ted.europa.eu/TED/notice/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:574563-2018:TEXT:EN:HTMLI'm a bit puzzled about the statement "facilitate assembly, testing, commissioning and both light and heavy maintenance of rolling stock", is 'assembly' referring to just joining the carriages up into a unit or something else? HTIOI Simon
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 27, 2018 10:03:42 GMT
Some assembly of the new trains will be required as they will be 87 metres long and arriving by road as the DLR has no rail connections. As the new trains will be single walk-through units this assembly will be more than just joining carriages up. Exactly what it will entail though will depend on the detailed design of the trains, which (if it is even complete) is not yet public.
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