|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 20, 2022 9:03:10 GMT
Even if these stations are on strike zone 1 stations are very close together. Indeed Euston is half a mile or less from Euston Square, Warren Street and Kings Cross St Pancras Green Park is about half a mile from Buckingham Palace but Piccadilly Circus is about half a mile to the east and Hyde Park Corner half a mile to the west, St James Park and Victoria are roughly the same distance from Buckingham Palace to the south side while Charing Cross and Westminster are both close to the Admiralty Arch end of The Mall where the parade will finish RMT still has a mandate for strikes by all 10k members at TfL, they shut down most the the network for two days in March and caused disruption on the day in-between. This is just 85 members on strike for one day at two out of 262 stations As mentioned before this has been dragging on for months (years?), TfL/LUL had lots of time to deal with the issue (which according to various reports is due to actions of one rogue manager) but did nothing. RMT have gone by the book, followed the agreed procedures and in the end had no alternative but to ballot for strike action. Management have two weeks to sort out the mess they've created (they'll probably promote the manager out of the group) |
|
hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
|
Post by hobbayne on May 20, 2022 10:08:42 GMT
Even if these stations are on strike zone 1 stations are very close together. Indeed Euston is half a mile or less from Euston Square, Warren Street and Kings Cross St Pancras Green Park is about half a mile from Buckingham Palace but Piccadilly Circus is about half a mile to the east and Hyde Park Corner half a mile to the west, St James Park and Victoria are roughly the same distance from Buckingham Palace to the south side while Charing Cross and Westminster are both close to the Admiralty Arch end of The Mall where the parade will finish RMT still has a mandate for strikes by all 10k members at TfL, they shut down most the the network for two days in March and caused disruption on the day in-between. This is just 85 members on strike for one day at two out of 262 stations As mentioned before this has been dragging on for months (years?), TfL/LUL had lots of time to deal with the issue (which according to various reports is due to actions of one rogue manager) but did nothing. RMT have gone by the book, followed the agreed procedures and in the end had no alternative but to ballot for strike action. Management have two weeks to sort out the mess they've created (they'll probably promote the manager out of the group) As far as I know, the manager has upset everyone wherever he or she has worked. It looks like the move to Green Pk was not a personal choice. I hear through the proverbial grapevine they may move move trainside to TOM. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 20, 2022 11:28:48 GMT
As long as they don't come to Leytonstone...
|
|
|
|
Post by AndrewPSSP on May 20, 2022 13:45:39 GMT
I can't remember where it was but I remember reading somewhere on a strike day the workers still went to work but didn't take any fares
Probably delving into fantasy, but would/could striking LU staff do this?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on May 20, 2022 14:38:07 GMT
I can't remember where it was but I remember reading somewhere on a strike day the workers still went to work but didn't take any fares Probably delving into fantasy, but would/could striking LU staff do this? No. To strike is to withdraw your labour. Going to work isn't withdrawing your labour! It might perhaps be relevant to also point out that our staff pass isn't valid if we go on strike so its not possible to travel to work if that's how staff get into work. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 20, 2022 15:21:21 GMT
I can't remember where it was but I remember reading somewhere on a strike day the workers still went to work but didn't take any fares Probably delving into fantasy, but would/could striking LU staff do this? Not collecting fares without permission from management would be grounds for dismissal and leaving the gateline open so people could just walk through could lead to overcrowding. Plus as its only two stations you could walk through the open gateline at Green Park and Euston then get clobbered for full fare when you tapped out somewhere else |
|
|
|
Post by zbang on May 20, 2022 17:13:23 GMT
Is it (important)?
Staff has a difference with management, which management ignores. Staff then publicizes that difference hoping outsiders will press management. If that pressure doesn't occur, staff performs a job action while also publicizing exactly why they're acting. Often mgt now sees a reason to work on a solution.
The customers are simply the third leg of the stool.
Anyway, -IF- the earlier allegations are true (manager forcing out a disabled staffer), then as a customer I'd be more than a little perturbed.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
|
Post by Tom on May 20, 2022 19:53:17 GMT
I have a fundamental issue with this - the dispute is with the employer, not the customers. There may be little or no practical difference in the railway context, but the distinction is important. I agree, but there's no point striking if it doesn't hurt the employer. The way to hurt the employer, sadly, is to have disrupted their business. A token strike, say between 0030 and 0430, won't have any ill-effect, and thus not be effective. Declaration of interest: I'm not a fan of striking and it really should be a last resort - but when you do strike it has to have an effect so as to be meaningful. |
|
|
|
Post by johnlinford on May 20, 2022 20:40:15 GMT
I agree, but there's no point striking if it doesn't hurt the employer. The way to hurt the employer, sadly, is to have disrupted their business. A token strike, say between 0030 and 0430, won't have any ill-effect, and thus not be effective. Declaration of interest: I'm not a fan of striking and it really should be a last resort - but when you do strike it has to have an effect so as to be meaningful. Absolutely. And this seems a reasonable thing to call a strike over, rather than nebulous demands of keeping staffing structures as they are in perpetuity despite technology and travel patterns changing... |
|
hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
|
Post by hobbayne on May 21, 2022 9:46:59 GMT
Monday 6th June. Watch this space.
|
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on May 21, 2022 9:58:08 GMT
Monday 6th June. Watch this space. Are we allowed further details?  |
|
|
|
Post by Tubeboy on May 21, 2022 14:54:22 GMT
RMT station staff on the whole system will be on strike. 0001 to 2359. Got a message earlier. I feel an all grades strike would be better, but oh well. Also an overtime ban between the 3rd June and 10th July.
RMT are currently balloting staff on the mainline. There could be a co-ordinated strike.
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 21, 2022 17:04:02 GMT
The ballot of members on Network Rail and fifteen TOCs closes Tuesday 24th May, they have to give 14 days' notice of any strike action so the result will be announced too late to have a co-ordinated strike with Tube staff on Monday 6th June Unless management agree to seven days' notice which seems highly unlikely www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launch-strike-ballot-over-pay-freeze/Just as well, I have to get the future Mrs shrugged from the Paddington Hilton to Heathrow that morning for her flight back to the States |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 23, 2022 3:43:36 GMT
LBC's Camilla Tominey talking to RMT's John Leach
"You want to bring the Victoria, the Jubilee and the Piccadilly line to a halt over the Platinum Jubilee weekend because of a dispute with one manager!?"
I guess Tominey doesn't go on the Tube much and has never heard of "non-stopping" a station
|
|
|
|
Post by zbang on May 23, 2022 17:34:51 GMT
"Non-stopping" isn't the sort of thing most of The Public would understand, let along most news reporters (and especially those who don't cover transportation).
|
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on May 23, 2022 19:26:36 GMT
So what is happening - trains will not be operating as normal but they won't be stopping at most stations?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,761
|
Post by Chris M on May 23, 2022 20:34:24 GMT
So what is happening - trains will not be operating as normal but they won't be stopping at most stations? There are two strikes being discussed, both by station staff only. One at Green Park and Euston only and one system-wide. The first one will see just those two stations closed (probably, it actually depends how many staff actually do strike - although I think most station staff are members of the RMT not all of them are, and not everybody who is in the RMT will necessarily support the strike) and so the trains will run as normal but just not stop at those stations. The second will see probably (as above) many, maybe most, stations closed. Stations that are not enclosed (on the surface, in an open-air cutting) can legally be open when unstaffed so expect that at outer stations and a normal-ish service to run between them. Enclosed stations, which I think includes every station in Zone 1, have a minimum number of staff below which they cannot be open for passengers (this number is set for each station individually based on it's own characteristics, but as a general rule the bigger the station the higher the minimum number of staff). Stations that have enough staff will be open and trains will serve them if possible (there might be a limit on the number of consecutive non-stopping stations, I can't remember). Staff are generally trained at multiple stations, so it is very likely that smaller stations will be closed so that a larger one can open (e.g. Embankment will be prioritised over Temple). Which stations are open and closed will vary during the day as it depend who turns up for which shift. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 24, 2022 2:56:14 GMT
As I mentioned elsewhere Green Park and Euston have about 100 staff between them, 85 RMT members were eligible to vote on those two stations so there aren't many non-RMT staff
If I remember correctly if three consecutive stations are closed then trains run empty e.g. trains can run in passenger service from Marble Arch to Notting Hill Gate with Lancaster Gate and Queensway shut but not to Holland Park if Notting Hill Gate is shut.
If the 6th June strike goes head most likely Central Line services will be Ealing Broadway/West Ruislip to White City and Epping/Hainault to Leytonstone although last time we did run all the way into Liverpool Street for a while (non-stopping at Bethnal Green).
Also minimum staffing levels change at some stations depending on the time of day, e.g Green Park goes up from 5 to 9 in the peaks so some stations might open initially then have to close later
|
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on May 24, 2022 6:29:53 GMT
So what is happening - trains will not be operating as normal but they won't be stopping at most stations? There are two strikes being discussed, both by station staff only. One at Green Park and Euston only and one system-wide. The first one will see just those two stations closed (probably, it actually depends how many staff actually do strike - although I think most station staff are members of the RMT not all of them are, and not everybody who is in the RMT will necessarily support the strike) and so the trains will run as normal but just not stop at those stations. The second will see probably (as above) many, maybe most, stations closed. Stations that are not enclosed (on the surface, in an open-air cutting) can legally be open when unstaffed so expect that at outer stations and a normal-ish service to run between them. Enclosed stations, which I think includes every station in Zone 1, have a minimum number of staff below which they cannot be open for passengers (this number is set for each station individually based on it's own characteristics, but as a general rule the bigger the station the higher the minimum number of staff). Stations that have enough staff will be open and trains will serve them if possible (there might be a limit on the number of consecutive non-stopping stations, I can't remember). Staff are generally trained at multiple stations, so it is very likely that smaller stations will be closed so that a larger one can open (e.g. Embankment will be prioritised over Temple). Which stations are open and closed will vary during the day as it depend who turns up for which shift. It'll be a good day for the Victoria line... |
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on May 24, 2022 16:35:05 GMT
Euston and Green Park: TfL expects both stations will be open during the strike
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on May 27, 2022 12:30:31 GMT
An update from BBC London’s Tom Edwards regarding the Euston/Green Park stations group dispute:
|
|
|
|
Post by trt on May 27, 2022 19:36:14 GMT
Well it's not going to be appropriate to ask what that progress is because it would be terrible if that progress was lost because of a confidential action plan being blurted out on a fairly open forum. And it would be confidential of course because it's very specifically about one person I hear.
|
|
|
|
Post by nig on May 27, 2022 20:08:15 GMT
Well it's not going to be appropriate to ask what that progress is because it would be terrible if that progress was lost because of a confidential action plan being blurted out on a fairly open forum. And it would be confidential of course because it's very specifically about one person I hear. Not really it's in the news articles. Underground chiefs have promised to hold a review into the matter, with union involvement. |
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on May 30, 2022 16:51:20 GMT
just had this email
Between Friday 3 June and Sunday 10 July, RMT strike action will be taking place across various London Underground stations. Between these dates, journeys may be impacted by short notice station closures, although we are doing everything we can to keep stations open.
On Monday 6 June, severe disruption across the network is expected from start of service until 08:00 on Tuesday morning, with many stations, especially those in the centre, closed.
Train services will still run but will only be stopping at stations that are open, which could change throughout the day due to staffing levels.
You are advised to avoid travelling on Monday 6 June. If travel on Monday 6 June cannot be avoided, please travel after 08:00 and complete journeys by 18:00. On Tuesday 7 June, some stations may still be closed at the beginning of the day and you are advised to travel after 08:00.
|
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on Jun 3, 2022 21:52:14 GMT
Station staff are refusing to work overtime, and these closures indicate how short-staffed stations are.
as of now:
Chancery Lane - closed due to unavailability of staff
Finsbury Park - closed due to unavailability of staff
Holloway Road - closed due to overcrowding
Lancaster Gate - closed due to unavailability of staff
Mansion House - closed due to unavailability of staff
Russell Square - closed due to unavailability of staff
Tufnell Park - closed due to faulty platform equipment / unavailability of staff (keeps changing on website)
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 4, 2022 6:32:11 GMT
A station staff strike has started from today until 10th July, as many as you know (action short of a strike) as of now: Chancery Lane - closed due to unavailability of staff Finsbury Park - closed due to unavailability of staff Holloway Road - closed due to overcrowding Lancaster Gate - closed due to unavailability of staff Mansion House - closed due to unavailability of staff Russell Square - closed due to unavailability of staff Tufnell Park - closed due to faulty platform equipment / unavailability of staff (keeps changing on website) It's not a strike Staff are refusing to work overtime and these closures illustrate just how short of staff the stations actually are Maybe if station staff hadn't been so willing to work overtime station closeures would have been more common and management would have had to deal with the issue. This isn't an option on the train-side as we don't work overtime, if there's no driver available the train is cancelled (also if we go on strike we can't make up the lost pay by working a rest day) |
|
hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
|
Post by hobbayne on Jun 4, 2022 9:37:19 GMT
Station staff have shown goodwill by working overtime to keep the stations open because of shortages of staff.
Alas, many may lose their jobs (Mrs Hobbayne included) So the goodwill has now expired.
|
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on Jun 4, 2022 20:06:55 GMT
A station staff strike has started from today until 10th July, as many as you know (action short of a strike) as of now: Chancery Lane - closed due to unavailability of staff Finsbury Park - closed due to unavailability of staff Holloway Road - closed due to overcrowding Lancaster Gate - closed due to unavailability of staff Mansion House - closed due to unavailability of staff Russell Square - closed due to unavailability of staff Tufnell Park - closed due to faulty platform equipment / unavailability of staff (keeps changing on website) It's not a strike Staff are refusing to work overtime and these closures illustrate just how short of staff the stations actually are Maybe if station staff hadn't been so willing to work overtime station closeures would have been more common and management would have had to deal with the issue. This isn't an option on the train-side as we don't work overtime, if there's no driver available the train is cancelled (also if we go on strike we can't make up the lost pay by working a rest day) Ohhh! I see now - apologies, post amended. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Jun 6, 2022 11:35:07 GMT
How come they're saying that the Elizabeth Line is open fully? Surely it shares many stations with the Tube? Are they not Section 12 stations? Or do they have an alternative evacuation plan and their own staffing?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 6, 2022 11:51:54 GMT
How come they're saying that the Elizabeth Line is open fully? Surely it shares many stations with the Tube? Are they not Section 12 stations? Or do they have an alternative evacuation plan and their own staffing? Drafted in enough staff to keep the prestige stations open. |
|
