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Post by patrickb on Jun 1, 2018 13:14:04 GMT
I've said it before but I think it needs repeating. Why is there this total unwillingness to preserve sets. The New York subway is proud of its heritage and still runs its vintage trains on special trips and as holiday extra services, the latter at normal fares. I find it ridculous that apart from the 38 set, the vintage stock most likely to be seen running on the underground is ex Southern Region. Completely agree with you. The issues however with this are very complex. The 38TS itself is starting to wear down now, these units are 80 years old after all. It would be nice to see it run again, though it seems unlikely until provisions are made for it to have Automatic Train Protection. Costs for having these heritage runs are not within TfL's already tightly squeezed budget. This has always been a big issue. However, as I pointed out earlier on. Sets have been sold to private owners in the past. Remarkably, we have a complete set of 1959, 1960 & 1962TS as well as other units. The Bigger issue is an unwillingness to have sets taken off LU without them being scrapped.
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Post by humbug on Jun 1, 2018 13:14:42 GMT
As an enthusiast rather than anyone within TfL or connected to the LTM, I would gather it's down to:
-Cost -Storage space -Incompatibility of signalling (if not now, in the future)
Also I gather the NYCS is quadruple tracked, which makes it simpler to run an additional services, and deal with breakdowns.
Is this approximately correct?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 16:43:47 GMT
As an enthusiast rather than anyone within TfL or connected to the LTM, I would gather it's down to: -Cost -Storage space -Incompatibility of signalling (if not now, in the future) Also I gather the NYCS is quadruple tracked, which makes it simpler to run an additional services, and deal with breakdowns. Is this approximately correct? Spot on. Can't remember the exact cost just to get the 38TS fitted with ATO, but it is a lot. Without CBTC being fitted, there are very few places the 38TS could run past 2022ish. LU run the oldest underground system in the world, and I doubt anyone thought it would see the demand it sees today. Its all well and good saying this and that could be done, but without a lot of cash, its unlikely to change in a hurry. I am sure many people would love to see the A stock kept, but it can't happen as things currently are.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 2, 2018 8:15:23 GMT
Though its been a combination of all factors that have unfortunately conspired against saving a unit of A stock, an important consideration for future preservationists going forward, if things remain as they are, is the seeming contractual strictness imposed on scrap yards against reselling - it just seems to have been easier to purchase withdrawn stock in the not too distant past, for example the 59ts. Interested parties should start figuring out creative ways now to influence decision processes in the years to come when the NTfL starts replacing the 73ts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 15:21:07 GMT
Though its been a combination of all factors that have unfortunately conspired against saving a unit of A stock, an important consideration for future preservationists going forward, if things remain as they are, is the seeming contractual strictness imposed on scrap yards against reselling - it just seems to have been easier to purchase withdrawn stock in the not too distant past, for example the 59ts. Interested parties should start figuring out creative ways now to influence decision processes in the years to come when the NTfL starts replacing the 73ts. Sounds like a job for Holborn platform 5...
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Post by hptraveller on Jun 3, 2018 8:24:11 GMT
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 3, 2018 10:33:13 GMT
Ah, I'd forgotten that the Aldwych platform at Holborn was due to go - that's one of the only major things in Zone 1 I haven't seen though I was near there one day very early in the morning when a CSA opened it but he wouldn't even let me take one step inside Anyway, my apologies for taking the thread further off topic and perhaps let's return to A Stock. (However, if users want to discuss further the end of Holborn P5 please carry on in this thread and I'll separate it to a new one.)
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 3, 2018 23:35:41 GMT
(potential sacrilege alert:)
It may be that LU is the wrong place to want to see heritage trains running.
At least one iconic Sprague train from the Paris metro is used on a museum railway. The line is not electrified - instead they have adopted another solution (diesel generator - either towed or inside the train, I am not sure which).
Maybe this is what we should hope for here in the UK?
Maybe fuel cell would be better / cleaner than diesel - as is planned for some withdrawn Class 321 trains?
Simon - thinking outside the box
(end of potential sacrilege alert:)
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2018 7:35:45 GMT
(potential sacrilege alert:) It may be that LU is the wrong place to want to see heritage trains running. At least one iconic Sprague train from the Paris metro is used on a museum railway. The line is not electrified - instead they have adopted another solution (diesel generator - either towed or inside the train, I am not sure which). Maybe this is what we should hope for here in the UK? Maybe fuel cell would be better / cleaner than diesel - as is planned for some withdrawn Class 321 trains? Simon - thinking outside the box (end of potential sacrilege alert:) Isn't it more a matter of signalling than power supplies?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 7:52:51 GMT
Abit of both
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2018 8:42:13 GMT
The sad thing is, though, that whilst the power problem is easy enough to overcome (solid state converter or one of the suggestions from spsmiler), presumable the signalling is a dead end? Obviously you can't halt progress just so heritage trains can run, but it is sad to think that relatively soon it will be impossible to run heritage trains at all - at least under their own power/control.
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Post by programmes1 on Jun 4, 2018 8:50:02 GMT
The sad thing is, though, that whilst the power problem is easy enough to overcome (solid state converter or one of the suggestions from spsmiler), presumable the signalling is a dead end? Obviously you can't halt progress just so heritage trains can run, but it is sad to think that relatively soon it will be impossible to run heritage trains at all - at least under their own power/control. Where I used to work it was known as forward thinking but they all had their heads in the sand.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2018 9:20:09 GMT
The sad thing is, though, that whilst the power problem is easy enough to overcome (solid state converter or one of the suggestions from spsmiler), presumable the signalling is a dead end? Obviously you can't halt progress just so heritage trains can run, but it is sad to think that relatively soon it will be impossible to run heritage trains at all - at least under their own power/control. Where I used to work it was know as forward thinking but they all had their heads in the sand. Sorry, what was known as forward thinking?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 9:27:13 GMT
Well technically it could run north of Harrow towards Amersham as they are keeping line side signals and Trainstops for the Chilterns but with the voltage upgrade I don’t see it happening
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 4, 2018 10:06:19 GMT
Well technically it could run north of Harrow towards Amersham as they are keeping line side signals and Trainstops for the Chilterns but with the voltage upgrade I don’t see it happening The primary issue is getting heritage stock to and from the part of the Met that has lineside signals. The additional costs to haul it to/from Ruislip are not insignificant, plus there's then the question of where you stable it overnight. Ricky sidings will be ATO-only.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 10:56:26 GMT
Do like they do now in some cases have it run after the last train in cancelled engineering hours
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cso
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Post by cso on Jun 4, 2018 11:25:53 GMT
You'd still presumably have to stable it somewhere though?
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Post by programmes1 on Jun 4, 2018 11:30:44 GMT
Where I used to work it was know as forward thinking but they all had their heads in the sand. Sorry, what was known as forward thinking? There were people in charge coming out with all sorts of schemes and the like but none of them had a clue but as they were so high up they made it look good well they tried.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 11:59:04 GMT
You'd still presumably have to stable it somewhere though? Sidings at Amersham
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 4, 2018 12:13:54 GMT
You'd still presumably have to stable it somewhere though? Sidings at Amersham They're going as part of ESTL if I recall...
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 4, 2018 12:25:19 GMT
Do like they do now in some cases have it run after the last train in cancelled engineering hours Who pays for two sets of cancelled engineering hours between Rayners Lane and Harrow and the faff to get it from Harrow 5/6 onto the signalled bits?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 12:52:51 GMT
There's always what if and buts
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 18:42:06 GMT
(potential sacrilege alert:) It may be that LU is the wrong place to want to see heritage trains running. At least one iconic Sprague train from the Paris metro is used on a museum railway. The line is not electrified - instead they have adopted another solution (diesel generator - either towed or inside the train, I am not sure which). Maybe this is what we should hope for here in the UK? Maybe fuel cell would be better / cleaner than diesel - as is planned for some withdrawn Class 321 trains? Simon - thinking outside the box (end of potential sacrilege alert:) This is the current plan for the Q stock to run it at heritage railways
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Post by christopher125 on Jun 25, 2018 23:27:26 GMT
This is the current plan for the Q stock to run it at heritage railways Is that in addition to LU running, or instead of?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 7:15:39 GMT
This is the current plan for the Q stock to run it at heritage railways Is that in addition to LU running, or instead of? In addition.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 19:00:42 GMT
Anyone know if 5234/5 is still at Museum Depot?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 19:51:48 GMT
Anyone know if 5234/5 is still at Museum Depot? Its practically confirmed to be there during the open weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 22:15:25 GMT
Anyone know if 5234/5 is still at Museum Depot? Its practically confirmed to be there during the open weekend. Great. Best news I’ve heard in a very long while regarding the A Stock.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jul 5, 2018 19:22:54 GMT
Hurrah!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 22:32:47 GMT
Not so hurrah. If it does not get moved soon, it could start impacting on other plans...
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