rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on May 20, 2018 22:51:16 GMT
So now it is in use? All seemed smooth at Stratford today, except for the fast turnaround time - barely the passengers had left before the train was ready to depart again. That's the purpose of "Stepping Back", there are only two significant limits on turn-around time: 1) Time for "arriving" train op' to shut down and vacate their cab. 2) Time for "departing" train op' to enter and activate their cab. Has any kind of 'rear cab clear' siren/indicator been installed? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2018 23:20:40 GMT
Has any kind of 'rear cab clear' siren/indicator been installed? Yes. In my opinion the plungers seem just a teeny bit badly located in that you have to walk a short forwards to them and then go back on yourself. |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
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Post by rincew1nd on May 21, 2018 0:49:12 GMT
What form do they take? Visual or audible? If the pluger is beyond the FRLs I have visions of this happening: - Train arrives late
- "Arriving" Train Op' jumps out eager for the train to make up time, leaving their bag of paraphernalia in the cab (thinking they can pick it up as they walk past; back to the other end).
- Scurries to plunger, and plunges
- "Departing" Train Op' (eager for the train to make up time) scampers into the cab as soon as the train arrives.
- "Departing" Train Op' receives rear cab clear indication and movement authority - promptly closes doors and departs.
- "Arriving" Train Op' watches their lunch and precious mug disappearing towards West Ham.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 21, 2018 4:18:47 GMT
[li]"Arriving" Train Op' jumps out eager for the train to make up time, leaving their bag of paraphernalia in the cab (thinking they can pick it up as they walk past; back to the other end). In this circumstance the arriving driver should’ve left the cab door open, the departing driver would be unable to close this from the now front cab. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 21, 2018 6:28:29 GMT
The rear cab isn't clear if his bag is still in there, so he shouldn't press the plunger to say that it is.
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Post by punkman on May 21, 2018 11:04:47 GMT
A bit more about the plungers. They were, to my knowledge, installed when the Jubilee platforms were originally built but not commissioned until ATO in 2010. They were roughly in line wth the arriving train operator's cab but about 3 metres away, and are operated simply by lifting a flap and pressing the plunger. At the time the current crowds could never be envisaged and their loaction would have seemed a sensible option, but with the passenger numbers now (Olympics, Westfield, O2, West Ham FC etc.) it can be nigh on impossible to plunge straight away as T/Ops would have to fight their way across the crowds exiting the train. By all accounts different T/Ops apply different methods; some don't bother (especially if the end of their shift), some wait till the crowds have subsided before emerging from the cab, others may go into the first carriage and get off merging with the crowd to drift cross the flow and there's even those who will scurry across BEFORE opening the doors! In the latter case, as has been stated, they shouldn't and rather defeats the object.
At the other end I think it would be true to say most T/Ops just board their train and don't necessarily always notice the RCC sign one way or another; they were always told that the train wouldn't be given a target unless the plunger had been operated. I'm not sure if that is the case though but I would imagine it could be overridden, whether individually or for all trains, but not working in signals I couldn't say for sure. It will be interesting to hear what happens with the new timetable; with train turnaround time of 4 minutes wheel stop to wheel start there's not much room for error but one things for sure, the public will continue to rush for the train and hold doors as if the 2 minute wait for the next train alongside is simply too long.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on May 21, 2018 11:30:48 GMT
A bit more about the plungers. They were, to my knowledge, installed when the Jubilee platforms were originally built but not commissioned until ATO in 2010. They were roughly in line wth the arriving train operator's cab but about 3 metres away, and are operated simply by lifting a flap and pressing the plunger. At the time the current crowds could never be envisaged and their loaction would have seemed a sensible option, but with the passenger numbers now (Olympics, Westfield, O2, West Ham FC etc.) it can be nigh on impossible to plunge straight away as T/Ops would have to fight their way across the crowds exiting the train. By all accounts different T/Ops apply different methods; some don't bother (especially if the end of their shift), some wait till the crowds have subsided before emerging from the cab, others may go into the first carriage and get off merging with the crowd to drift cross the flow and there's even those who will scurry across BEFORE opening the doors! In the latter case, as has been stated, they shouldn't and rather defeats the object. At the other end I think it would be true to say most T/Ops just board their train and don't necessarily always notice the RCC sign one way or another; they were always told that the train wouldn't be given a target unless the plunger had been operated. I'm not sure if that is the case though but I would imagine it could be overridden, whether individually or for all trains, but not working in signals I couldn't say for sure. It will be interesting to hear what happens with the new timetable; with train turnaround time of 4 minutes wheel stop to wheel start there's not much room for error but one things for sure, the public will continue to rush for the train and hold doors as if the 2 minute wait for the next train alongside is simply too long. Normally Seltrac gives a 4 minute layover in a terminal berth before giving a limit of movement authority. Operation of the plunger overrides this. So if the incoming driver fails to plunge it is likely to cause a delay. The signaller can override the layover time by utilising a menu command labelled “depart”. This sometimes happens at a conventional terminus if a quick turnaround is to happen - either by the driver changing ends quickly, double ending or a crew relief. It’s common for drivers to forget to plunge at Morden. Often the step back manager will notice and he will call the signaller to request the depart command be used. However if the error doesn’t get picked up and causes a delay then it will go down to the incoming driver. |
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Post by jamesb on May 21, 2018 19:10:59 GMT
Coming into Stratford this evening from a passengers perspective (about 17:30) all seemed smooth - there was a brief stop outside, but nothing major.
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Post by jamesb on Aug 29, 2018 20:51:38 GMT
I see that the rear cab clear plungers at Stratford have been replaced with shiny new ones and relocated so that the train operator doesn't have to fight through the crowd (quite as much...) Now on the railings immediately in front of the train
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Post by jamesb on Oct 10, 2018 14:32:19 GMT
While there might be more trains, one drawback of this new timetable is rush hour (especially in the morning) on the Jubilee line platforms at Stratford (14/15).
The platforms become very congested, and for some reason (e.g. this morning) sometimes the first train to leave isn't the first one in - I have seen that the Stanmore train tends to leave first.
This morning, there were no trains on the platforms at about 8.45am. Then a train arrived on platform 14 (despite the indicator board showing next train would be from platform 15). The crowd of people migrated over to the train on platform 14. Then the indicator board flashed with an information update, that the next train would be from platform 15. Then, almost as soon as the train arrived on platform 15, it was ready to depart, while people were running back towards it from the opposite train.
No system is perfect, and I'd rather have more trains and put up with the congestion, but it can be a bit confusing!
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Post by stapler on Oct 10, 2018 15:58:56 GMT
While there might be more trains, one drawback of this new timetable is rush hour (especially in the morning) on the Jubilee line platforms at Stratford (14/15). The platforms become very congested, and for some reason (e.g. this morning) sometimes the first train to leave isn't the first one in - I have seen that the Stanmore train tends to leave first. This morning, there were no trains on the platforms at about 8.45am. Then a train arrived on platform 14 (despite the indicator board showing next train would be from platform 15). The crowd of people migrated over to the train on platform 14. Then the indicator board flashed with an information update, that the next train would be from platform 15. Then, almost as soon as the train arrived on platform 15, it was ready to depart, while people were running back towards it from the opposite train. No system is perfect, and I'd rather have more trains and put up with the congestion, but it can be a bit confusing! It's better than when the same thing happened with platform 13! |
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Post by punkman on Oct 11, 2018 12:10:32 GMT
While there might be more trains, one drawback of this new timetable is rush hour (especially in the morning) on the Jubilee line platforms at Stratford (14/15). The platforms become very congested, and for some reason (e.g. this morning) sometimes the first train to leave isn't the first one in - I have seen that the Stanmore train tends to leave first. This morning, there were no trains on the platforms at about 8.45am. Then a train arrived on platform 14 (despite the indicator board showing next train would be from platform 15). The crowd of people migrated over to the train on platform 14. Then the indicator board flashed with an information update, that the next train would be from platform 15. Then, almost as soon as the train arrived on platform 15, it was ready to depart, while people were running back towards it from the opposite train. No system is perfect, and I'd rather have more trains and put up with the congestion, but it can be a bit confusing! With the intensity of the timetable, reversers at three stations as well as Stanmore along with drivers "stepping back" it only takes a little blip in the service for trains to be out of sequence, and I believe the manager in the box tries to restore them in the correct order where possible. I'm not very familiar with the morning rush, but it sounds similar to the evening one, especially with people heading to an event at North Greenwich, in that everyone seems to congregate at the rear of the train, resulting in an undignified scramble when the first train comes in. I have to say I have little faith in the platform indicators (or even the automated "Next platform" announcement) and head towards the front of the platform and get on any train; generally it will leave soon as I'm not too fussed about a few minutes here or there. If only we could educate our fellow travellers that they can use the full length of the train, but then at least I generally get a seat! |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 11, 2018 20:54:43 GMT
Apparently there was much disruption this morning, anyway, I passed through this station at approximately 10:45 and the Jubilee train which I caught was on platform 13. I would have photographed the sign saying that the platform was out of use but there were so many people leaving the platform that the train would not have been seen.
When my train departed I saw at least four closely spaced stationary trains in a queue to enter the station. I wish that I had been filming video at the time. Ah well... if only I had known in advance.
At Canning Town I saw that the train (going the opposite way) waiting to depart the station was only going as far as West Ham. I suppose that will have helped reduce the queue.
The train I was on stopped outside North Greenwich and the driver apologised because we were in for a slow journey. We were also told that there were too many trains out.
I alighted at Canada Water so do not know what happened after that.
Simon
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