Ticketing developments

snoggle
In memoriam

Posts: 2,188

Ticketing developments Feb 14, 2018 14:31:41 GMT rapidtransitman and goldenarrow like this

Post by snoggle on Feb 14, 2018 14:31:41 GMT

I'm never quite sure where ticketing things are discussed on DD but I'll try here and see if the mods agree.

There is TfL paper going to the Programmes and Investment Cttee next week covering a wide range of technology issues. This reflects the new Directorate structure that has merged various disparate areas into one. The paper is seeking funding for the next 2 year's worth of activties and has a decent list of the different projects. There is a fair chunk on ticketing matters.

tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pic-20180221-item08-pt-1-tech-and-data.pdf

The ticketing changes cover

- a Crossrail related fares model
- a Crossrail related auto fares routeing
- a possible future "digital Oyster card" on mobile phones
- development of an entirely new card reader with first deployment on buses
- completion of the weekly capping updates including weekly capping on Oyster with an apparent card format update process
- possible incorporation of "concessions" (I take that to be railcards) entitlement in the Oyster App which would provide the basis of contactless card users gaining railcard discounts.
- development of a new revenue inspection reader device
- system changes to "force" the replacement of 1st generation Oyster cards

There's a whole pile of other stuff related to changes to TfL's workplace computing systems, replacement of several key systems that support the operation of the bus network and bus contracting systems and the start of replacing I-Bus and providing for "Countdown 3".

100andthirty Posts: 643	Ticketing developments Feb 15, 2018 10:59:53 GMT snoggle likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 100andthirty on Feb 15, 2018 10:59:53 GMT Thanks for the update. Your summary is much more digestible than the paper!

spsmiler

Posts: 3,015

Ticketing developments Feb 15, 2018 22:54:53 GMT

Post by spsmiler on Feb 15, 2018 22:54:53 GMT

I thought that there was no money for anything...

I assume that the reason for retiring older Oystercards is still because their communications protocol is old and less secure. This has been talked about before and I thought was originally meant to happen within a year or so from now. Ah well, goodbye my faithful Visitor card with images of several London landmarks on the front - but no letter D in a blue box on the back.

The card format update makes me wonder if the remaining Oystercards will be modified so that they work more like contactless for fares calculations with the cost of travels deducted overnight, albeit from funds which are held on TfL's computers rather than either the Oystercard or charged to a bank / credit card account.

I wonder how all this will work with anonymous Oystercards that can be shared by family members and friends - albeit with a restriction that only one person can use it at a time. These are the only form of fares payment system which will ensure GDPR compliance - because they do not need to store (or be otherwise associated with) personally identifiable user data.

I also wonder about the future of 'topping up' monetary value to Oystercards. Especially for small amounts which are paid in cash there really is no need for things like 'Know Your Customer' compliance - this is a banking requirement but TfL did not want to get involved in such issues. This is why Oyster acceptance never extended beyond transport - unlike the Hong Kong Octopus smart card which has effectively become a general payment card and personal ID card.

btw, if there is a real desire to be at the cutting edge of technology, a crypto Oystercard should be introduced. The two cryptos which are looking most likely to be adopted for retail sales are Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash. Note that the original Bitcoin is something different and for various reasons, including high transaction fees, is unsuited for this function.

Simon

Last Edit: Feb 15, 2018 23:20:13 GMT by spsmiler

35b

Posts: 440

Ticketing developments Feb 16, 2018 7:16:42 GMT via Tapatalk

Post by 35b on Feb 16, 2018 7:16:42 GMT

Feb 15, 2018 22:54:53 GMT spsmiler said:

I thought that there was no money for anything...

I assume that the reason for retiring older Oystercards is still because their communications protocol is old and less secure. This has been talked about before and I thought was originally meant to happen within a year or so from now. Ah well, goodbye my faithful Visitor card with images of several London landmarks on the front - but no letter D in a blue box on the back.

The card format update makes me wonder if the remaining Oystercards will be modified so that they work more like contactless for fares calculations with the cost of travels deducted overnight, albeit from funds which are held on TfL's computers rather than either the Oystercard or charged to a bank / credit card account.

I wonder how all this will work with anonymous Oystercards that can be shared by family members and friends - albeit with a restriction that only one person can use it at a time. These are the only form of fares payment system which will ensure GDPR compliance - because they do not need to store (or be otherwise associated with) personally identifiable user data.

I also wonder about the future of 'topping up' monetary value to Oystercards. Especially for small amounts which are paid in cash there really is no need for things like 'Know Your Customer' compliance - this is a banking requirement but TfL did not want to get involved in such issues. This is why Oyster acceptance never extended beyond transport - unlike the Hong Kong Octopus smart card which has effectively become a general payment card and personal ID card.

btw, if there is a real desire to be at the cutting edge of technology, a crypto Oystercard should be introduced. The two cryptos which are looking most likely to be adopted for retail sales are Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash. Note that the original Bitcoin is something different and for various reasons, including high transaction fees, is unsuited for this function.

Simon

It feels like you’re trying to over complicate things. GDPR doesn’t require anonymity, and to me the benefits of accessing discounts outweigh the drawbacks of allowing TfL to know it’s me that made certain journeys.

rincew1nd Administrator Junior Under-wizzard of quiz Posts: 10,223	Ticketing developments Feb 16, 2018 7:44:10 GMT via mobile Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by rincew1nd on Feb 16, 2018 7:44:10 GMT GDPR ?

greggygreggygreg

Posts: 132

Ticketing developments Feb 16, 2018 8:12:29 GMT via mobile

Post by greggygreggygreg on Feb 16, 2018 8:12:29 GMT

Feb 16, 2018 7:44:10 GMT rincew1nd said:

GDPR ?

General Data Protection Regulations. The new Data Protection Act. More stringent than the old one. Companies will have to ask for consent, and know what they are doing. No doubt the NHS will spend millions on working out ways to circumnavigate the GDPR rather than ask for people's consent.

snoggle
In memoriam

Posts: 2,188

Ticketing developments Feb 16, 2018 11:27:35 GMT rapidtransitman likes this

Post by snoggle on Feb 16, 2018 11:27:35 GMT

Feb 15, 2018 22:54:53 GMT spsmiler said:

I thought that there was no money for anything...

I assume that the reason for retiring older Oystercards is still because their communications protocol is old and less secure. This has been talked about before and I thought was originally meant to happen within a year or so from now. Ah well, goodbye my faithful Visitor card with images of several London landmarks on the front - but no letter D in a blue box on the back.

The card format update makes me wonder if the remaining Oystercards will be modified so that they work more like contactless for fares calculations with the cost of travels deducted overnight, albeit from funds which are held on TfL's computers rather than either the Oystercard or charged to a bank / credit card account.

I wonder how all this will work with anonymous Oystercards that can be shared by family members and friends - albeit with a restriction that only one person can use it at a time. These are the only form of fares payment system which will ensure GDPR compliance - because they do not need to store (or be otherwise associated with) personally identifiable user data.

I also wonder about the future of 'topping up' monetary value to Oystercards. Especially for small amounts which are paid in cash there really is no need for things like 'Know Your Customer' compliance - this is a banking requirement but TfL did not want to get involved in such issues. This is why Oyster acceptance never extended beyond transport - unlike the Hong Kong Octopus smart card which has effectively become a general payment card and personal ID card.

There clearly is money but it is being spent more carefully and even then a lot of the stuff in the paper is about dealing with obsolescence / contract expiry / inability to seek further procurement derogations. There are not that many "nice to haves" in the paper from what I can tell but I'm very out of date on a number of TfL things now.

Based on comments on another forum the card format update will add a "weekly cap counter" alongside the daily cap counters that already exist. It is not about what you have speculated about. I have to say I'm more than a little surprised about the card format update idea but it certainly seems to be "a thing" that TfL are doing. I doubt the overnight calculation thing is going to apply here but that's a guess. I'd love to see some more info on this but I can't see that happening (sadly).

The move to "force" or "more strongly nudge" people into swapping out their 1st gen cards is partly for the reasons you cite but also because they don't work with the Oyster App. It seems clear that the Oyster App is "the big thing" at the moment that TfL are putting a lot of faith in. Broadening the app user base by swapping cards out makes sense.

Post by snoggle on Feb 14, 2018 14:31:41 GMT

Post by 100andthirty on Feb 15, 2018 10:59:53 GMT

Post by spsmiler on Feb 15, 2018 22:54:53 GMT

Post by 35b on Feb 16, 2018 7:16:42 GMT

Post by rincew1nd on Feb 16, 2018 7:44:10 GMT

Post by greggygreggygreg on Feb 16, 2018 8:12:29 GMT

Post by snoggle on Feb 16, 2018 11:27:35 GMT