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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 9:16:23 GMT
Good Morning
I am a frequent user of this line and noticed that there are more and more short train formations. A couple of months ago it was just the odd train during rush hour, but now it seems that more and more trains are shorter. Could be just a wrong perception on my side. What is the reason for this? Sometimes there is an announcement that this is due to essential maintenance work. Is there any date when a normal service will run?
To be fair it is only an issue during rush hour and the last few weeks were quite cosy.
Thanks Oliver
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 11, 2018 21:04:43 GMT
I'm confused, are you referring to 2 car trains or trains stopping short of their destination?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 11, 2018 21:24:23 GMT
Having stayed in a hotel just off the Beckton branch at Christmas, I was a little surprised at times to find a 'short set' arriving rather than a full 3-unit train.
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Post by reese on Jan 12, 2018 1:42:14 GMT
Not entirely sure if related, but when I was in London on January 4th a train stalled in the Bank tunnels and my train was diverted into Tower Gateway. After that, the stalled train sat on the siding immediately outside Tower Gateway and they started making announcements that only two-car services would be serving the Beckton-Tower Gateway runs due to "maintenance works".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 9:02:48 GMT
I indeed mean the short 2 car trains.
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Post by ted672 on Jan 12, 2018 23:47:16 GMT
I heard an announcement while waiting at Star Lane this evening to the effect that some trains serving Tower Gateway would be "two cars" while essential maintenance is carried out on trains. Perhaps a fault has been found on a number of units that requires them to be stopped until rectified.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 13, 2018 1:30:22 GMT
Or possibly just a bit of bad luck in the timing of run off the mill problems caused by the wear and tear of running an intensive service with increasingly unreliable, ageing fleet. Something has to give. The Stratford-Canary Wharf service is only rarely not a two-car operation (I did see a three-car train between Christmas and New Year though, presumably fewer commuters and the start of the sales was the reasoning). The Woolwich to Stratford International service has been operated by two-car trains every time I've used it in the past six months (although that is admittedly not that often). Bank to Lewisham is the DLR's busiest route and really needs more capacity than the current three car trains can give. Bank to Woolwich Arsenal is the second busiest route and really needs three car trains, at least in the peaks. When I was living there a few years ago 2-car trains at the weekend sometimes happened (especially when they were catching up on deferred maintenance post-Olympics) and they were busy but not overcrowded. With the new housing around Pontoon Dock this line is getting busier and busier. Tower Gateway to Beckton is therefore the one that has to give as the least used of the routes on which three-car trains operate. Certainly it used to be the case that UEL and ExCeL meant that the traffic profile on that branch was more spread out and less peaky than the Woolwich route. If that's still the case then two car trains will cope better than might be expected if you just look at daily total ridership figures.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 13, 2018 15:14:15 GMT
I thought that the DLR does not have enough rolling stock for all services to have triple-unit trains.
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Post by North End on Jan 13, 2018 15:32:35 GMT
Or possibly just a bit of bad luck in the timing of run off the mill problems caused by the wear and tear of running an intensive service with increasingly unreliable, ageing fleet. Something has to give. The Stratford-Canary Wharf service is only rarely not a two-car operation (I did see a three-car train between Christmas and New Year though, presumably fewer commuters and the start of the sales was the reasoning). The Woolwich to Stratford International service has been operated by two-car trains every time I've used it in the past six months (although that is admittedly not that often). Bank to Lewisham is the DLR's busiest route and really needs more capacity than the current three car trains can give. Bank to Woolwich Arsenal is the second busiest route and really needs three car trains, at least in the peaks. When I was living there a few years ago 2-car trains at the weekend sometimes happened (especially when they were catching up on deferred maintenance post-Olympics) and they were busy but not overcrowded. With the new housing around Pontoon Dock this line is getting busier and busier. Tower Gateway to Beckton is therefore the one that has to give as the least used of the routes on which three-car trains operate. Certainly it used to be the case that UEL and ExCeL meant that the traffic profile on that branch was more spread out and less peaky than the Woolwich route. If that's still the case then two car trains will cope better than might be expected if you just look at daily total ridership figures. It doesn't feel like that long since the Beckton service was run with just a single vehicle. Shows how much development there has been in the Royal Docks area in a fairly short space of time.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 13, 2018 21:27:52 GMT
I thought that the DLR does not have enough rolling stock for all services to have triple-unit trains. They don't, which is why the Stratford service is only two cars and the Stratford International service is usually only two cars. However, there normally is enough for all the services to Zone 1 to run as 3-car trains.
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 10, 2018 17:19:38 GMT
Just stumbled across this on the DLR section of the TfL web page:
I wonder what component has been causing the fleet so much trouble?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 10, 2018 19:39:45 GMT
A wheel lathe?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 10, 2018 20:39:28 GMT
That was my first thought. The DLR uses a different wheel profile to both LU and mainline stock that is better suited for the tight radius corners but poorer at high speed (hence the hunting on the fast sections, particularly through the tunnel to Woolwich), so just borrowing a lathe from somewhere else might not be easy. Although having said that I have no idea how configurable for different profiles wheel lathes are. Even if they are using a lathe elsewhere, detaching, shipping and reattaching wheels/wheelsets/bogies is going to be more time consuming than reprofiling in situ.
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Post by zbang on Mar 10, 2018 23:27:16 GMT
My understanding is that the lathes can easily switch profiles. Mainline railways often use different profiles on their various rolling stock and it wouldn't make any sense for the the device to be locked to a single shape.
Also, I can't speak to UK practice, but in the USA it's common to swap the entire axle & wheel unit if either wheel needs work (which, of course, requires enough spares). That or they turn the wheels while still on the bogie, which is probably easier than axle-swapping when there's a traction motor involved.
How frequent is wheel turning on the DLR or LU trains? I wonder it there's another piece of specialized equipment that's out of service, such as a drop-table (for entire bogies), or a crane.
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Post by croxleyn on Mar 12, 2018 18:07:29 GMT
Chiltern Rail's lathe at the Aylesbury depot is completely in-situ - the carriage is just shunted across it and both wheels are done at the same time. You can see the swarf (trimmings) being pushed along a channel by Archimedes screw to the hopper outside. As it will be completely NC (numerical controlled), the only thing to dictate profile is what the operator requests.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Mar 13, 2018 12:26:22 GMT
During the Olympics weren't all services of a 3-car formation?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 13, 2018 18:20:06 GMT
I don't know about all services, but certainly most were. However, this was only possible for a short time and there was a significant maintenance backlog afterwards with many services that were routinely 3 cars being only 2 (e.g. off-peak Bank-Woolwich trains). The need to account for this was one of the reasons for the length of time between the Olympics and Paralympics (although of course far from the only reason). I think it was about 2 months after the Paralympics finished before I next saw a three-car train to Woolwich at the weekend.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 13, 2018 19:39:46 GMT
I don't know about all services, but certainly most were. However, this was only possible for a short time and there was a significant maintenance backlog afterwards with many services that were routinely 3 cars being only 2 (e.g. off-peak Bank-Woolwich trains). The need to account for this was one of the reasons for the length of time between the Olympics and Paralympics (although of course far from the only reason). I think it was about 2 months after the Paralympics finished before I next saw a three-car train to Woolwich at the weekend. A 3 car train is a rare sight at Woolwich Arsenal at weekends now.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 13, 2018 22:55:35 GMT
That'll be because of the broken bit of kit. When I last used it regularly, the normal pattern at weekends was for Bank trains to be 3 cars and Stratford International trains to be 2 cars.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 14, 2018 5:01:49 GMT
That'll be because of the broken bit of kit. When I last used it regularly, the normal pattern at weekends was for Bank trains to be 3 cars and Stratford International trains to be 2 cars. Even the Bank trains have been 2 car for longer than that. With the weekend closures of Southeastern services on the Cannon Street line, I am a frequent user.
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Post by moogal on Mar 14, 2018 10:23:17 GMT
During the Olympics weren't all services of a 3-car formation? Stratford branch trains used to be a mix of 3 and 2 car services, but running at a lower frequency. When the concession changed hands a couple of years back, the timetable was changed to run 2-car trains at roughly twice the frequency, which has actually made a positive difference to capacity.
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Post by zbang on Mar 14, 2018 16:29:34 GMT
That'll be because of the broken bit of kit. Did they ever announce which piece of equipment was out-of-sorts?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 14, 2018 18:54:05 GMT
not that I'm aware of
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Post by davidp on Mar 19, 2018 9:42:05 GMT
What this has proved to me is the usefulness of having the current format of having 2 or 3 detachable '2-car' units forming a complete train. Problem with the wheels on one unit? Detach it from the other units and run a smaller train. OK, only 66% of the normal capacity but that has to be better than 0% of normal capacity that we'd get with the proposed new '6-car' units if there was any problem with any one 'car'.
I know the argument for the '6-car' unit is that it allows passengers to move through the train to find a less congested spot, but my experience of 6-car trains here in Amsterdam suggests that it is not going to happen. On my evening journey from work at Bijlmer towards town, the first 3 or 4 sets of doors are so crowded whilst there are seats still available at the last 3 or 4 sets of doors. That's because the last three stops (Waterlooplein, Neumarket and Centraal) all have their main exits at the front of the train and people want to be close to those exits when they get off. My experience of the DLR suggests the same will apply here (front of train if you're going into the City at Bank) and that there will be no benefit.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 19, 2018 10:03:50 GMT
The S stocks are walk through and they do suffer that problem to an extent, tut it's not as bad as it could be. Bank actually has three exits from the platform - one slightly aft of the second door of the train (north end), one about level with the third last and one between the two, and the corridor it leads to has four exits - the north end escalators are the busiest leading to the Bank exits, the lift exit, central line, W&C and the north exit of the Northern line platforms. The second exit is the lift to the same locations so is very much the quietest, even though its the only step-free route. The south end escalators lead to the sub-surface lines and Monument exit and there is a side exit to the south end of the Northern line platforms (which is also best for the eastbound SSR platform, but I've only used this in the opposite direction). The only stations I can think of with exits right at one end of the train only are Shadwell, Mudchute, London City Airport and Stratford high level, so on most journeys people do spread out anyway.
Yes the flexibility of multiple units per train is useful, but the capacity increase will outweigh those benefits. The coupling and uncoupling doesn't come for free, as the couplers on the current units are wearing out, and all the added equipment means there is more to go wrong.
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Post by pib on Mar 21, 2018 8:45:51 GMT
Shadwell & Mudchute have exits at both ends.
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Post by moogal on Mar 21, 2018 11:09:39 GMT
The only stations I can think of with exits right at one end of the train only are Shadwell, Mudchute, London City Airport and Stratford high level, so on most journeys people do spread out anyway. Quite a few others do, off the top of my head there's at least Poplar, Beckton, Prince Regent and All Saints.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 21, 2018 12:28:35 GMT
pib you're right about Shadwell. Mudchute only has two exits on the southbound platform, and the northern one is really only used by people who can't use the stairs at the south end - everyone wanting somewhere north of Mudchute alights at Crossharbour. moogal you're right about Beckton and Prince Regent. Poplar has two exits, although they are both at the west end. The exit from the platform at All Saints (and Devons Road and Bow Church) is actually towards the rear of the first car rather than at the end of the train iirc.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 27, 2018 18:08:55 GMT
Just stumbled across this on the DLR section of the TfL web page:
I wonder what component has been causing the fleet so much trouble? In a group I'm a member of on Facebook someone has posted a photo of a DLR unit on the back of a lorry with the caption "Beckton to Ilford. Another successful move." although I think the photo was taken at Beckton rather than Ilford. I don't know whether the following image will work, but if it does credit goes to Alex Whitehouse:
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Post by Chris M on Mar 27, 2018 20:07:29 GMT
The reasons given for going to Ilford are "for wheel turning" and "bogie mountings cracked". If the former is correct then it does suggest that it's a wheel lathe out of action at Beckton Depot.
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