Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 1, 2005 23:46:40 GMT
Hi all, I discovered District Dave's website a while ago (through Annie Mole's site I think) and have been reading this forum for a few days and have finally got around to registering.
Browsing one of the many LU sites I spotted again the fact that you can make the longest journey in a tunnel via the city branch of the Northern line. This is obviously the longest journey in a tunnel on a single line, but what is the longest journey you can make without leaving tunnels without going back on yourself if you allow changes of train and line. If you go southbound on the northern line from Euston to Kings Cross you then can't use the northern line again between those two stations. You can use the Victoria line though. You can take the Circle from Liverpool Street to Aldgate but you then can't take the Met between the same two stations as they use the same tunnel. Cuttings aren't allowed, the journey has to be in a continuous tunnel.
I know this is a strange first post, but thats me. I'll probably be asking lots of qestions - some stranger than others - as I'm interested in the Underground (well, railways in general as well!) but don't get much chance to use it living in Somerset.
Chris
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Post by q8 on Aug 2, 2005 6:57:31 GMT
Gor Blimey!! ANOTHER Chris........if this carries on we'll have to rename this site to "Chris's underground railway site"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2005 7:24:35 GMT
if this carries on we'll have to rename this site to "Chris's underground railway site" I think DD might have something to say about that! As for the longest journey in tunnels, I have no idea. I would guess theres one optimum route, but what that is is anyones guess. Maybe someone with some time (or even a lot of time lol) on their hands could work it out!  |
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Post by compsci on Aug 2, 2005 7:36:14 GMT
Isn't the Liverpool St to Aldgate example disallowed as at least one of those stations (and I think both) are in open cuttings?
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Post by chris on Aug 2, 2005 8:02:19 GMT
we'll have to rename this site to "Chris's underground railway site" Thats what i've been thinking from the beginning. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2005 9:52:43 GMT
Let's go back to the seventies and re-name all the Chris' a number e.g Hello number 1, nice to meet you then all we need is the flamingo's  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 2, 2005 10:09:31 GMT
I'll have a shot. Stockwell - Euston - Charing Cross - Baker Street - Green Park - Walthamstow Central
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 2, 2005 10:36:45 GMT
I'll have a shot. Stockwell - Euston - Charing Cross - Baker Street - Green Park - Walthamstow Central Would Stockwell - Camden Town - Charing Cross - Baker Street - Bond Street - Holborn - Green Park - Walthamstow Central work? Might depend on the track layout at Camden Town though (its not a station I've ever visited). Chris |
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Post by Chris W on Aug 2, 2005 11:57:32 GMT
This is Chris W (alias Chris No. 2 ;D ;D) just trying to add another dimension to the thread....... how about longest underground tunnel between two stations.... I would think that the Waterloo & City line/tunnel would be quite high on that list.....  ;D |
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Post by compsci on Aug 2, 2005 12:42:03 GMT
Unfortunately, while it is reasonably simple to write a computer program to find the shortest route between two points, finding the longest route is NP complete, in other words there is no better way than trying each possability in turn and keeping track of the longest found so far.
I could still have a go though, I recon an overnight run (proably far less) would be enough, given that there aren't huge numbers of stations connected by continuous tunnels. Is there any kind of map available with the distances marked on?
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Post by compsci on Aug 2, 2005 14:53:43 GMT
how about longest underground tunnel between two stations.... That would be the Heathrow Loop between Terminal 4 and Terminals 1, 2, 3, which is 2.71 miles, which is pretty near the top of the list of distances between any two adjacent stations. |
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Post by q8 on Aug 2, 2005 16:15:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2005 0:55:00 GMT
Excellent Q8, and thanks. Good to see distances shown in miles like the old days. None of this modern 'kilometres' stuff!! Hmmm.... the Piccadilly Line holds the record for closest distance between stations on LUL, with the District Line in 2nd place. Sorted!!! ;D |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 3, 2005 8:40:57 GMT
We need more rules here folks: Are we including or excluding cut-and-cover? And are we allowing 'loops' between stations on different lines e.g. KX to FP on picc, return on victoria?
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Post by compsci on Aug 3, 2005 8:46:50 GMT
I've got a preliminary map here.  I think there are still a few stations to remove. The rules I suggest are if you can see sunlight at any point that section is excluded. I think loops are OK, but if you use a line in one direction, you can't use the same line in the reverse direction. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2005 8:52:16 GMT
yes, loops are ok as long as they are in different tunnels - e.g. picc and vic between FP and KX is ok, but met and H&C between Moorgate and Liverpool Street isn't.
Chis
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Post by compsci on Aug 3, 2005 9:05:15 GMT
So are we allowing the same line to be used in both directions or not?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2005 9:07:31 GMT
So are we allowing the same line to be used in both directions or not? No. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 3, 2005 9:55:33 GMT
Sorry to be picky compsci but the picc. gets into the open before it reaches Arnos Grove  |
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Post by compsci on Aug 3, 2005 10:09:15 GMT
Sorry to be picky compsci but the picc. gets into the open before it reaches Arnos Grove That's exactly why I posted it, so people could correct it. I'm also uncertain about the bits of circle and district that are left. Map modified to reflect this. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2005 23:11:31 GMT
Sorry to be picky compsci but the picc. gets into the open before it reaches Arnos Grove That's exactly why I posted it, so people could correct it. I'm also uncertain about the bits of circle and district that are left. Map modified to reflect this. OK compsci, looks pretty good to me, but I can tell you that sunlight falls on to parts of both Liverpool St (Met/Circle/H&C) and Aldgate. And Aldgate causes yet more problems with 'rules', as Minories junction is right behind the buffer-stops with daylight visible from passing District trains. Is a train 'in tunnel' if you can see daylight? Won't make any other comments about the District/Circle section from Victoria to Aldgate East though, as there are several other people here (including the owner of this website!) who know it much better than I do. Pete |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2005 23:29:36 GMT
And Aldgate causes yet more problems with 'rules', as Minories junction is right behind the buffer-stops with daylight visible from passing District trains. Is a train 'in tunnel' if you can see daylight? For the purposes of this excercise at least I'd say that the train is in the tunnel unless the daylight is above the train - just because you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, doesn't mean you are not in a tunnel.  Daylight in area A is fine, as long as there is no daylight above the train or in area B. Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2005 23:41:24 GMT
So that would make Aldgate out of it, because it's up and to the side as you go through minories junction.
And what about the air venting at Tower Hill? Many a time have I sat in the university looking down at passing trains through the vents.
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Post by compsci on Aug 4, 2005 6:30:24 GMT
Presumably daylight is fine in one of the area As, given that the train had to pass though one of them to get where it is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2005 8:58:05 GMT
The District tunnels are full of "holes", including at Embankment and Mansion House.
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Post by q8 on Aug 4, 2005 9:16:30 GMT
I think for true accuracy the journey should be confined largely to tube lines as, as has been stated, the SSL lines often have open stretches.
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Post by compsci on Aug 4, 2005 9:25:35 GMT
Ignoring SSL lines, the network I've ended up with has 36 nodes - either ends of lines like Earl's Court or interchange stations. I've left Moorgare etc. in in case we do include some SSL lines. This has been entered into my computer, and now I'm going to start on the solver.
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Post by compsci on Aug 4, 2005 12:24:47 GMT
Haven't worked out what the longest journey is yet, but it appears to be longer than 40 miles.
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Post by compsci on Aug 4, 2005 15:52:00 GMT
Longest so far is 42.13 miles between Walthamstow Central and Bounds Green, via most of central London.
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Post by compsci on Aug 4, 2005 20:15:05 GMT
The longet route I've found so far (and I think this could be the longest of all) is: | FROM | TO | LINE | DISTANCE | |
| South Wimbledon | Stockwell | Northern | 5.16 | | Stockwell | Finsbury Park | Victoria | 7.96 | | Finsbury Park | King's Cross St. Pancras | Piccadilly | 2.48 | | King's Cross St. Pancras | Camden Town | Northern | 1.44 | | Camden Town | Kennington | Northern | 4.29 | | Kennington | Bank | Northern | 1.90 | | Bank | Bond Street | Central | 2.68 | | Bond Street | Baker Street | Jubilee | 1.07 | | Baker Street | Waterloo | Bakerloo | 2.55 | | Waterloo | Bank | Waterloo & City | 1.47 | | Bank | King's Cross St. Pancras | Northern | 2.69 | | King's Cross St. Pancras | Green Park | Piccadilly | 2.22 | | Green Park | North Greenwich | Jubilee | 6.90 | | | TOTAL | 42.81 |
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;D
