|
Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 7, 2017 5:05:13 GMT
As expected, no resumption of service at start-of-traffic, Parsons Green and Olympia being used again.
|
|
|
Post by wimblephil on Nov 7, 2017 7:43:34 GMT
i think I saw 2 trains stuck at Wimbledon platforms...? Well noticed! one in platform 4 also. I hate to correct, but the trains at Wimbledon are in Platforms 1 & 2. The derailed SWR train is still in situ... has there been any info on when it is likely to be moved?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 8:24:47 GMT
Here we are over 24 hours later and the track is still blocked. It seems a poor show to me, and I can't understand why it isn't sorted by now. And what a strange idea, which person thought of it, to get rid of that extra platform at Putney Bridge? It's quite a transport hub for buses, and if that extra track was in operation, at least we could take a bus there from Southfields to catch the tube to Earls Court.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Nov 7, 2017 8:54:34 GMT
Here we are over 24 hours later and the track is still blocked. It seems a poor show to me, and I can't understand why it isn't sorted by now. And what a barmy idea, which clown thought of it, to get rid of that extra platform at Putney Bridge? It's quite a transport hub for buses, and if that extra track was in operation, at least we could take a bus there from Southfields to catch the tube to Earls Court. They at least could have kept the trailing crossover there. I understand why they got rid of the bay platform, because it was only just long enough to accommodate a 6 car C stock train; even D stock didn’t fit.
|
|
|
Post by br7mt on Nov 7, 2017 9:28:32 GMT
Assuming there is quite a bit of damage to the running gear it will need to be transferred to a road / rail access point for onward road transportation to a repair site. Logically it would make sense to move it to Wimbledon depot to achieve this, so I suspect the crossover needs to be repaired in order to take the shortest route to that depot. The damage may mean a slow speed move, possibly on skates for that car.
Regards,
Dan
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 7, 2017 10:15:16 GMT
Given how close it is to Wimbledon depot, I can't imagine it would need road transport to get it to a location where it can be repaired, even if a bogie swap is needed.
Passing on a SWR train this morning, I noticed that the rear bogie of the train is now supported by yellow objects which may be skates or jacks. (Strange, incidentally, that the first fifteen bogies appear to have negotiated the points correctly, and only the last one went the wrong way).
On the track behind the train are a large number of grey plastic sacks - no idea what they contain (debris? replacement track components)) but they will all have to be removed before the line can reopen.
Two S7s still sitting in platforms 1 and 2 at Wimbledon station.
Parsons Green station is not on any bus routes, although the 14, 22, and 414 pass close by and two of those also pass Fulham Broadway. However, it's would have been good if bus routes 39 (from Southfields) and 93 (from Wimbledon) could have been temporarily be extended from Putney Bridge to Parsons Green to avoid people having to change (The bridge at Parsons Green station has a height limit of 14'6", which is high enough for the buses operating both routes ..........)
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Nov 7, 2017 10:21:55 GMT
Here we are over 24 hours later and the track is still blocked. It seems a poor show to me, and I can't understand why it isn't sorted by now. And what a barmy idea, which clown thought of it, to get rid of that extra platform at Putney Bridge? It's quite a transport hub for buses, and if that extra track was in operation, at least we could take a bus there from Southfields to catch the tube to Earls Court. They at least could have kept the trailing crossover there. I understand why they got rid of the bay platform, because it was only just long enough to accommodate a 6 car C stock train; even D stock didn’t fit. From a passenger convenience point of view there should be some kind of reversing facility at either Putney Brisge or East Putney. Has to tie in with the traction current layout to be any use though.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,358
|
Post by Chris M on Nov 7, 2017 10:35:05 GMT
The yellow objects are more than likely jacks, as they are the preferred method of rerailing stock where possible. It might take a few lateral movements given the distance involved here, but I would be surprised if jacks can't do it. I've never seen skates applied, but I strongly suspect that these would not be attached before the wheel is in line with the track.
As for the removal of crossovers, this has been discussed previously. Crossovers cost money to maintain and, generally speaking, more complicated track layouts reduce speed and require more complicated signalling (which costs more money to install and maintain). It is always a balance between simplicity and flexibility, and the current philosophy values the former significantly higher than the latter (rightly or wrongly).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 11:34:57 GMT
They at least could have kept the trailing crossover there. I understand why they got rid of the bay platform, because it was only just long enough to accommodate a 6 car C stock train; even D stock didn’t fit. From a passenger convenience point of view there should be some kind of reversing facility at either Putney Brisge or East Putney. Has to tie in with the traction current layout to be any use though. Putney Bridge was removed as the bay road would not fit a S7 saying that it didn’t fit a D stock either, hence it’s removal. The shunt move on the bridge was rarely used and as CBTC does not like too many reversing points it was decided to remove that facility also. East Putney again rarely used so again was removed, remember this cuts down on costs from installation and maintenance and corrective works.
|
|
|
Post by roman80 on Nov 7, 2017 20:12:26 GMT
any views on the practical number of trains that could be turned at Parsons Green each hour? This afternoon and evening has seen only an Edgware Road to Parsons Green service at about ten minute frequency. That has not been enough and many have been left stranded at Earls Court this evening unable to board the next service despite the trains reaching Earls Court lightly loaded as they have not come along the bottom of the district line from the City. I wonder why more trains could not have been sent from the City. This morning I caught a Tower Hill terminating service from Parsons Green yet in the evening no trains were going to Parsons Green from the City.
|
|
|
Post by tedbarclay on Nov 7, 2017 20:34:20 GMT
There was certainly a Parsons Green from Blackfriars around 18:40.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,309
|
Post by Colin on Nov 7, 2017 21:20:08 GMT
any views on the practical number of trains that could be turned at Parsons Green each hour? This afternoon and evening has seen only an Edgware Road to Parsons Green service at about ten minute frequency. That has not been enough and many have been left stranded at Earls Court this evening unable to board the next service despite the trains reaching Earls Court lightly loaded as they have not come along the bottom of the district line from the City. I wonder why more trains could not have been sent from the City. This morning I caught a Tower Hill terminating service from Parsons Green yet in the evening no trains were going to Parsons Green from the City. I absolutely disagree with you! You must have been travelling just when a gap opened up or something. I picked up my train at 1750 ex Upminster and took it to Parsons Green. The previous departure, albeit a late runner, did exactly the same. From Earl’s Court it was “stick to stick” all the way to Parsons Green - service control this evening seem hellbent on running both the ‘City’ and Edgware Road’s to & from Parsons Green. Last night only the ‘City’ trains went to Parsons Green whilst the Edgware Road’s all went to Olympia. Whilst I queued to get into Parsons Green, every other train that passed on the eastbound alternated destinations between a ‘city’ one and an Edgware Road one. Looking at the Service Managers daily log, it seems they’ve been cancelling a double figure number of trains in the mornings , but only 4 or 5 in the evenings. So it would seem there’s a different way of running things depending on who is running the operation.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Nov 7, 2017 21:29:45 GMT
And don’t forget that trains coming out of certain sidings at Parsons Green can’t stop at the eastbound platform due to the location of the crossover, so that station gets a particularly raw deal.
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Nov 7, 2017 21:48:55 GMT
There's quite a generous overrun for sidings 21 and 22. Having trains shunt further down the roads would mean that the crossover could be located further away from the platform and would no longer prevent a train from berthing.
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 7, 2017 21:59:28 GMT
There's quite a generous overrun for sidings 21 and 22. Having trains shunt further down the roads would mean that the crossover could be located further away from the platform and would no longer prevent a train from berthing. The long term plan is to remove access from 21/22 Roads to the eastbound platform.
|
|
|
Post by wimblephil on Nov 7, 2017 22:10:28 GMT
any views on the practical number of trains that could be turned at Parsons Green each hour? This afternoon and evening has seen only an Edgware Road to Parsons Green service at about ten minute frequency. That has not been enough and many have been left stranded at Earls Court this evening unable to board the next service despite the trains reaching Earls Court lightly loaded as they have not come along the bottom of the district line from the City. I wonder why more trains could not have been sent from the City. This morning I caught a Tower Hill terminating service from Parsons Green yet in the evening no trains were going to Parsons Green from the City. I absolutely disagree with you! You must have been travelling just when a gap opened up or something. I picked up my train at 1750 ex Upminster and took it to Parsons Green. The previous departure, albeit a late runner, did exactly the same. From Earl’s Court it was “stick to stick” all the way to Parsons Green - service control this evening seem hellbent on running both the ‘City’ and Edgware Road’s to & from Parsons Green. Last night only the ‘City’ trains went to Parsons Green whilst the Edgware Road’s all went to Olympia. Whilst I queued to get into Parsons Green, every other train that passed on the eastbound alternated destinations between a ‘city’ one and an Edgware Road one. Looking at the Service Managers daily log, it seems they’ve been cancelling a double figure number of trains in the mornings , but only 4 or 5 in the evenings. So it would seem there’s a different way of running things depending on who is running the operation. It’s interesting that you say this, as the official District Line service status all evening has been: “Wimbledon branch trains are running between Parsons Green and Edgware Road only. For other destinations, take the first train and change at Earl’s Court as there are no Wimbledon branch trains through the City.” Of course this doesn’t mention what the trains are doing FROM the City, but one would presume they’re not running in some odd one-way triangulation pattern...! I can’t offer a personal opinion on the service levels tonight, as I had to make do with buses. So much time spent sitting in traffic! I hope the service is back to normal tomorrow...!
|
|
|
Post by scheduler on Nov 7, 2017 22:14:08 GMT
any views on the practical number of trains that could be turned at Parsons Green each hour? This afternoon and evening has seen only an Edgware Road to Parsons Green service at about ten minute frequency. That has not been enough and many have been left stranded at Earls Court this evening unable to board the next service despite the trains reaching Earls Court lightly loaded as they have not come along the bottom of the district line from the City. I wonder why more trains could not have been sent from the City. This morning I caught a Tower Hill terminating service from Parsons Green yet in the evening no trains were going to Parsons Green from the City. That is a tricky question to answer... Parsons Green has 4 sidings to the west of the station that would allow trains to reverse back out eastbound. 2 sidings on each side of the running lines. I believe however that the two on the westbound side would not allow a train exiting eastbound to call at the platform, as part of the train would still be on the crossover. So that means you really only have 2 sidings. I would suggest that given the driver needs 5 minutes to change ends the best you are going to get is a train every 5 minutes. Since the peak timetable normally sees a Wimbledon branch train every 3-4 minutes, this will be the cause of some of the shortage. It should, using all 4 sidings be possible to run better than every 5 minutes, but there is the problem coming back eastbound. And due to detrainment time on the westbound platform, you could never achieve reversing the full peak hours Wimbledon service at Parsons Green. It should cope with the off peak every 5 minutes no problem.
|
|
|
Post by scheduler on Nov 7, 2017 22:15:48 GMT
There's quite a generous overrun for sidings 21 and 22. Having trains shunt further down the roads would mean that the crossover could be located further away from the platform and would no longer prevent a train from berthing. The long term plan is to remove access from 21/22 Roads to the eastbound platform. Great! - a new timetable required for that then.
|
|
|
Post by roman80 on Nov 7, 2017 22:24:03 GMT
any views on the practical number of trains that could be turned at Parsons Green each hour? This afternoon and evening has seen only an Edgware Road to Parsons Green service at about ten minute frequency. That has not been enough and many have been left stranded at Earls Court this evening unable to board the next service despite the trains reaching Earls Court lightly loaded as they have not come along the bottom of the district line from the City. I wonder why more trains could not have been sent from the City. This morning I caught a Tower Hill terminating service from Parsons Green yet in the evening no trains were going to Parsons Green from the City. I absolutely disagree with you! You must have been travelling just when a gap opened up or something. I picked up my train at 1750 ex Upminster and took it to Parsons Green. The previous departure, albeit a late runner, did exactly the same. From Earl’s Court it was “stick to stick” all the way to Parsons Green - service control this evening seem hellbent on running both the ‘City’ and Edgware Road’s to & from Parsons Green. Last night only the ‘City’ trains went to Parsons Green whilst the Edgware Road’s all went to Olympia. Whilst I queued to get into Parsons Green, every other train that passed on the eastbound alternated destinations between a ‘city’ one and an Edgware Road one. Looking at the Service Managers daily log, it seems they’ve been cancelling a double figure number of trains in the mornings , but only 4 or 5 in the evenings. So it would seem there’s a different way of running things depending on who is running the operation. about six thirty from Earls Court, possibly six forty. The platform announcer had to plead with a few people to step out of the train so that the doors could close. Passengers could see on the little screens that there was no next train shown to Parsons Green yet the listing showed trains up to thirteen minutes away, hence the desperation to board.
|
|
gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by gantshill on Nov 7, 2017 23:11:43 GMT
We've just had an e-mail informing us that no District line service between Wimbledon and Parsons Green is expected tomorrow morning. With the planned SWT strike as well, I am not looking forward to tomorrow morning's commute.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,358
|
Post by Chris M on Nov 8, 2017 1:04:04 GMT
I've seen it reported elsewhere that the derailment has caused "significant" damage to the District line track. I don't know the reliability of the source though.
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 8, 2017 5:22:18 GMT
District Line services restored 05.10 temporary speed restriction of 10mph Wimbledon Pk-Wimbledon both Roads
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 6:00:39 GMT
District Line services restored 05.10 temporary speed restriction of 10mph Wimbledon Pk-Wimbledon both Roads Also 736 points have been secured Normal
|
|
|
Post by Tubeboy on Nov 8, 2017 6:26:29 GMT
I've seen it reported elsewhere that the derailment has caused "significant" damage to the District line track. I don't know the reliability of the source though. 100m of track, 3 sets of points and cables were damaged. Cause of derailment was track spread.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 7:10:22 GMT
That 100 "metres of damage is much more than I thought. And also what is "track spread?" I assumed the rails were securely bolted down onto the sleepers, which were secure on top of the ballast? Relieved that it's now open however, even with a 10mph speed restriction.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 7:25:42 GMT
Track spread is exactly what it says the rails had moved outwards away from its gauge. It’s rare this happens on straight track especially on concrete sleepers but on points this is quite common as the points are generally mounted on wooden sleepers which the chairs are bolted too, and should be held to gauge with welded stops which should hold the gauge. Trouble is the chairs can ride up on the welded stop especially with loose keys and bolts through vibration.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 7:46:38 GMT
Thanks for the interesting, full explanation. No doubt the points here and elsewhere are regularly inspected for signs of any potential "spread."
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Nov 8, 2017 8:19:38 GMT
Track spread was the reason for an HST set derailing in August at Paddington, wasn't it? All comprehensively reported on that TV programme about the GWR.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 8:26:19 GMT
That was an unusual situation where contaminated fluid had rotted the timbers i would of thought that they would of used a concrete sleeper in that situation. Or fitted the chairs directly into concrete like in other platform areas.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,358
|
Post by Chris M on Nov 8, 2017 12:11:59 GMT
Track spread was the reason for an HST set derailing in August at Paddington, wasn't it? All comprehensively reported on that TV programme about the GWR. Yes, track spread was the cause of the Paddington derailment (I haven't seen the programme as I can't get the Channel 5 player to play me more than the first 2 frames of anything, but I watched much of the rerailing live), but I don't think the cause of the track spread will be the same. All track wants to spread because of simple physics. Train wheels are (basically) cones, so the weight of the train is pushing the rails out as well as down ( diagram). The fastening of the rail to the sleeper needs to resist this movement (the Wikipedia article has illustrations of several different types), but they can work loose with the vibration of passing trains. However what happened at Paddington was the wooden track support (a longitudinal bearer) rotted, and so despite the rails being firmly attached to the bearer, and the bearer being firmly supported by the formation the bearer itself wasn't able to maintain rigidity.
|
|